Does anyone here live in Aigburth or know anyone who does? If so, what do you (Or they) think of the area?

Someone at my temp job suggested it as a good neighbourhood with somewhat afforable house pricing. Is this correct?

Aigburth Vales the nicest part of it.

Aigburth Vale is awful, there's more yobs around there than anywhere else.

Try anywhere around the Cricket Club, that's ok. I remember seeing new housing estates being put up down that road by the Cricket club. Aigburth's quite nice. It's no Allerton but it's nice.

Have a walk down Lark Lane, Julia, Nice Area! and look down Hadassah Grove, check out the Lark Lane Web Site, and also handy for Sefton Park! Good Hunting!

South of Aigburth Vale - fine and dandy. Town end of Eggy Vale isn't brilliant and deteriorates as it reaches bottom of Park Rd. Popular with students that end.

Lark Lane is a wonderful area - a jewel in Liverpool's crown.

I quite like being round there, And to be honest, I would call the Park Road area Dingle rather than Aigburth!

It is pleasant though and is very leafy; There is also a variation of side street housing too. Some are lengthy terraces (with a view of North Wales sometimes) and others are very leafy streets with large villa housing. The bad thing about that area is that the nearest Sayers is more or less in Dingle as it is round by Park Road. Eggy Vale has a good selection of shops and buses to the city, the airport and to Bootle via Queens Drive. So it is well placed for commuting.

The suburb was featured in "Watching" if anyone recalls. Malcolm and Brenda moved into a house which was owned by Bernard and Malcolms Aunt. Brenda found it to be very boreing. Something I don't know about!

A MASKED schoolboy gang went on a playground rampage, attacking fellow pupils at a Liverpool school.

The gang of teenage boys, wearing hoods and scarves over their faces, randomly set upon other youngsters at St Margaret’s High School in Aigburth.

Two boys were injured - one suffering rib injuries and the other facial injuries - and were taken to hospital after the incident last Monday.

A 16 year-old pupil, who witnessed the attack, said the gang, made up of up to 30 Year 11 pupils, launched unprovoked attacks against younger students.

The teenager, who asked not to be named, said: “It was during the lunch break. There were about 20 or 30 of them, all aged about 15 or 16.

“They put their hoods up on their jackets and put scarves up around their faces.

“Then they went around the main yard. It was completely random and the attacks were all on lads who were younger, about 13 or 14.

“They were all concentrated attacks, about eight of them on each lad.
Different ones were having a go on different people.

“They just seemed to be stamping on the lad’s heads. There were at least 10 lads attacked.

“Eventually they all dispersed.”

The two students taken to hospital were allowed home later the same day.
One has since returned to school and the other is expected to return in the near future.

Dr David Dennison, head teacher of the Aigburth Road school, confirmed an investigation was underway.

He said the incident involved “a handful of students” and parents had been spoken to.

He added: “Aggressive behaviour is totally unacceptable and there is no place in this school for students who assault others.

“All students have been informed that no ball games are allowed that might lead to accidental or deliberate injury.

“St Margaret's school has at the heart of its ethos the Christian belief that all individuals should be respected.

“The school has a strict discipline and behaviour policy and we expect all students who uphold this policy. As a result of our ethos, events like this are extremely rare and dealt with firmly should they occur.”

A spokeswoman for the North West Ambulance Service, said: “We were called to the school at 1.36pm to reports of an assault involving two children.

“One child had facial injuries and a second child had rib injuries.
“The injuries were caused in two separate incidents. Both were taken to Alder Hey Childrens’ Hospital.”

A spokeswoman for Merseyside Police said they were aware of two allegations of assault. IC Liverpool

You didn't get that in my day! :eek:

Although we did get in to a few 'incidents' with the school next door - we had many names for em, most of em I can't repeat :Colorz_Grey_PDT_24:

There'd be mass brawls between Calderstones kids and New Hayes Kids so you would see that stuff In my day.

The Echo makes it sound like it was people coming in from a outside of the school, but what it doesn't make clear is that the people responsible are actually pupils of st margarets themselves.

South of Aigburth Vale - fine and dandy. Town end of Eggy Vale isn't brilliant and deteriorates as it reaches bottom of Park Rd. Popular with students that end.

Lark Lane is a wonderful area - a jewel in Liverpool's crown.

Oh dear!
I live at the bottom of Park Road. :celb (23): :celb (6): :celb (23): :celb (6):
No students near me, just new property, renovated property, and Victorian terraces opposite the Ancient Chapel.

However, there are plenty of students at the beginning of the Aigburth Road/Ullet Road area.

we had many names for em, most of em I can't repeat :Colorz_Grey_PDT_24:

:D

Oh dear!
I live at the bottom of Park Road. :celb (23): :celb (6): :celb (23): :celb (6):
No students near me, just new property, renovated property, and Victorian terraces opposite the Ancient Chapel.

However, there are plenty of students at the beginning of the Aigburth Road/Ullet Road area.

Students= Pure Evil.

Especially when they wake my Sister up with their music at night.

Landlords won't rent to anyone else.

I moved to Aigburth Vale just over a year ago from Waterloo.

Since moving here my car has been vandalised twice. My girlfriend's 3 times, and my mate's car is pretty much constantly kicked and run over.

New Year's Day; two new windscreens for my girl and mate, after they were kicked in.

Don't know why it's like it is here, it looks so nice, is leafy, parks abound.

However Aigburth as a whole, I have been told, is fine...

Lark Lane is ok, like a poor man's Camden I think.

I moved to Aigburth Vale just over a year ago from Waterloo.

Since moving here my car has been vandalised twice. My girlfriend's 3 times, and my mate's car is pretty much constantly kicked and run over.

New Year's Day; two new windscreens for my girl and mate, after they were kicked in.

Don't know why it's like it is here, it looks so nice, is leafy, parks abound.

However Aigburth as a whole, I have been told, is fine...

Lark Lane is ok, like a poor man's Camden I think.

:Colorz_Grey_PDT_24: Which part of Camden is Lark Lane like? I might be wrong mate but something tells me that you don't know Lark Lane or Camden all that well! :)

And there was I thinking Aigburth was supposed to be the posh end of town. But then the St Michael's/ Lark Lane area isn't really Aigburth at all despite what many will tell you and want to believe

I was talking about Wavertree really On the students part.

Going to Aigburth for a couple of pics, just thinking what their Is.

[/B]

:Colorz_Grey_PDT_24: Which part of Camden is Lark Lane like? I might be wrong mate but something tells me that you don't know Lark Lane or Camden all that well! :)


:celb (6):
My sister lived in Camden a while back, and i visited quite a lot. I think Lark Ln has a similar alternative/rustic/unwashed feel to it.

I live a 5-10 minute walk from Lark Ln too, we go there frequently; Maranto's is great for steak!

:celb (6):
My sister lived in Camden a while back, and i visited quite a lot. I think Lark Ln has a similar alternative/rustic/unwashed feel to it.

I live a 5-10 minute walk from Lark Ln too, we go there frequently; Maranto's is great for steak!

Thanks for that. Have you tried Que Pasa Cantina? Much better than Maranto's for food/atmosphere/music. I always associate Marantos with somewhere you take the entire extended family but in the end, as always, it's down to personal taste.

Anyway, the reason I queried Camden was because the borough is so large, containing places like Camden Town, Belsize Park, Hampstead, all very different. Because of the term 'alternative' I'm assuming you mean Camden Town. I'm now sifting through the main streets in my mind: Camden High Street, Parkway, Camden Road, Chalk Farm Road etc and none of them stikes me as being like Lark Lane.

Not sure I see Lark Lane as 'unwashed'! You do see a few unwashed people hanging about but less so now than a few years ago. The Camden Roads I mentioned above are heaving with London life and traffic (by comparison, Lark Lane is like a village High Street!). Poverty is much more apparent in Camden Town, too. Not many people are pushing the Big Issue on Lark Lane. I guess I didn't get the idea of a 'poor man's Camden' when overall people seem poorer in Camden Town than they do in the area around Lark Lane. A poor man's Hampstead - that works. Maybe that was the part of Camden you were getting at in the first place?

This is a delightfully attractive area and well worth exploring for those who don't know it. I've always been puzzled as to how on earth it came to be classed as being in Aigburth when patently is never has been. Is it simply because Aigburth Rd is nearby? I've come to the conclusion it probably dates back to the time when the trams only went as far as Aigburth Vale but were labelled as travelling to Aigburth. Aigburth of course being a district of Garston township whose boundary was at Aigburth Vale.

With the development of Sefton Park in the 1870s, the naming of half the ring road as Aigburth Drive also probably added to the confusion. The building of Sefton Park led to the whole area, a subset of Toxteth Park, being called Sefton Park though Liverpool street directories still called the area Toxteth Park well into the mid 20th C. The naming of the area Sefton Park led to the new library built on Aigburth Rd being called Sefton Park library rather than say Aigburth Library as one might expect if the correct name for the area were Aigburth.

Later the local council wards were named after Sefton Park. These wards largely followed the Toxteth Park boundaries. Thus the dales streets area between Smithdown Road and Garmoyle Rd L15 in what many now call Wavertree was actually called Sefton Park simply because it was in the Sefton Park ward, a part of Toxteth Park.

One of the best guides to correct district names are Church of England Parish names as these have a legal status which can only be changed by Act of Parliament. So they tend to be correct !! Thus Christ Church Linnet Lane off Lark Lane L17 proudly states it's in Toxteth Park and not Aigburth. Similarly for St Agnes on nearby Ullet Rd L17 and the now demolished St Andrew on Normanton Rd L17 anhd quite close to Lark Lane



Any one have any other thought on this one?

I wouldn't read too much into parish statutes! The catholic archdiocese of Liverpool contains Lanchashire, Cheshire and Greater Manchester within it. I guess we could argue that those places are spiritually a provence if Liverpool! (JOKE). Often in an attempt to curry legitimacy the church anchors itself in a pre-existing entity whether its Toxteth Park or Christmas (Yule). This doesn't mean that 'Toxteth Park' has any meaning beyond church affairs.

In the case of the area between Dingle Lane and Aigburth Vale, if local people don't say they live in Aigburth (or St Michaels, Fulwood Park, Sefton Park, Lark Lane area) they will say that they live in L17. There is no allegiance whatsoever to Toxteth or Toxteth Park. Many people know that Sefton Park is on the site of the area covered by Toxteth Park but the park is always referred to as Sefton Park! Toxteth Park was in no way a 'park' as we understand it!

Apart from benign neglect until recently by LCC, I think that part of the reason for this confusion is because there isn't really an academically rigorous history of Liverpool textbook (or series of textbooks). All the history books I have read have either been written by amateurs or published by the LEA in the form of a list of dates with a little bit of added information. The current '800th Birthday Book' is very much 'history to go' rather than rigorous in its analysis of how a city came into being and how it managed the tensions within and outside it.

The amateur historians make a great contribution and I value it. The downside for me is that, for example in terms of twentieth century history, the tendency is to over sentimentalise events or changes in the city. If that is reigned in, the danger then is often one of an over-reliance on anecdotalism, or a history that is the product of other history books rather than a critical analysis of source documents. Often the focus is on what happened without much of an analysis of why it happened. Currently it seems to me that there is a tendency to present the story of the north end of the city as if it reflected the city as a whole. It doesn't. For example, and just for argument's sake, if South Liverpool were detached from the rest of Liverpool, it would function as an average similar sized locality within England,with similar levels of deprivation. Once North Liverpool is added on the city shoots up towards the top of the list of most deprived English cities. The differences between the two halves (an over-simplification) of the city isn't reflected in recent history books. Anyway that's another story!

In the case of the area between Dingle Lane and Aigburth Vale, if local people don't say they live in Aigburth (or St Michaels, Fulwood Park, Sefton Park, Lark Lane area) they will say that they live in L17. There is no allegiance whatsoever to Toxteth or Toxteth Park. Many people know that Sefton Park is on the site of the area covered by Toxteth Park but the park is always referred to as Sefton Park! Toxteth Park was in no way a 'park' as we understand it!




I still don't really understand how the St Michael's/ Lark Lane area came to be classed as Aigburth when patently it never has been which was the main point of my query. Estate agents of course class all of L17 as Aigburth these days including Greenbank Drive by Smithdown Rd, I noticed recently. Some one of the list suggested the locals call the St Michael's/ Lark Lane area Aigburth out of snobbery but it must be more than that. How did a major place name error become common place amongst the population. I suugested simply it became associated as Aigburth simply by the old signs on the trams. There may be another explanation.

I attach an interesting road sign showing Aigburth as being 2 1/4 miles ( correctly) from the junction of Sefton park Rd with Ullet Rd. This of course takes you to roughly Jericho Lane/ Ashfield Rd which is the correct start of the real Aigburth which was of course a district within the Garston township

I think that there has been leakage between postcode and district with everyone who lives in L17 saying that they live in Aigburth. One way to manage this would be to move the signs for Aigburth from Aigburth Vale to the beginning of Aigburth Road where most people in this area regard it as starting. People from L8 often accuse people who live in the area between Dingle Lane and Aigburth Vale as saying they live in 'Aigburth' for snobbish reasons. That may be part of it. An L17 postcode can increase the value of your house by a considerable bit. A terraced house in somwhere like Gwendoline Street, L8 can be worth up to 100K less than a similar terrace in Belgrave Road, L17. At the turn of the century the St Michael's area was the most affluent in the entire country and Fulwood Park is classier than anything Aigburth proper has to offer, and then when you take the houses around Sefton Park and in the area between Lark Lane and Ullet Road, it's Aigburth proper that risks being shown up as wanting. Don't lets forget, whilst were at it, that the shops/ restaurants of Aigburth Road/Lark Lane north of Aigburth vale are much, much better than anything south of it (there isn't that much in comparison!). When people think of Aigburth as 'trendy', they are not thinking of the area south of Aigburth Vale (because it isn't).

So just where is Aigburth? Is it the suburb south of Aigburth Vale or is it the soul of South Liverpool north of this area? Is it a bit of both?

Move the signs LCC! Map the district onto the psychological reality that is Aigburth!

And in case you haven't guessed, I was born and live in Aigburth south of Aiburth Vale but my heart (and soul) is located in the area north of it - all of which I think of as being Aigburth!

Aigburth Hall was in Aigburth Hall Avenue, near the Cricket Ground.
Presumably Aigburth Vale is part of Aigburth.
Apart from that it's always been difficult to define where Aigburth is (or was).

It could be argued that a street sign directing you to somewhere would take you to the centre of that place.

There are different types of boundaries:
Parish, Municipal, Parliamentary, Historical, Snobbish, etc., that it's practically impossible to define them.
I'll stick with history, because I know where Toxteth Park is. :)

It was the Riots of 1981 that gave Toxteth a bad name, and the media resurrected the name that Scousers didn't use.
But the original Toxteth Park was so large that it's only natural that it's been sub-divided.
And it was created as a park for pleasure, but it wasn't a public park, and was probably never used much for hunting deer, with which it was stocked.

Aigburth Hall was in Aigburth Hall Avenue, near the Cricket Ground.
Presumably Aigburth Vale is part of Aigburth.
Apart from that it's always been difficult to define where Aigburth is (or was).

It could be argued that a street sign directing you to somewhere would take you to the centre of that place.

There are different types of boundaries:
Parish, Municipal, Parliamentary, Historical, Snobbish, etc., that it's practically impossible to define them.
I'll stick with history, because I know where Toxteth Park is. :)

It was the Riots of 1981 that gave Toxteth a bad name, and the media resurrected the name that Scousers didn't use.
But the original Toxteth Park was so large that it's only natural that it's been sub-divided.
And it was created as a park for pleasure, but it wasn't a public park, and was probably never used much for hunting deer, with which it was stocked.

Hi Philip et al.

I lived at 76 Aigburth Hall Avenue nearly opposite the shops and we always thought of it as Mossley Hill. Riversdale Road, the extension of Aigburth Hall Avenue, on the opposite side of Aigburth Road, which runs down toward the Mersey is where the Maybricks lived at 7 Riversdale Road.

As I noted in the James Maybrick thread, Florence Maybrick in her autobiography, My Lost Fifteen Years, actually calls the place where she lived "Aigwerth" rather than "Aigburth" although of course that could have been a typo in the book. As a child, I had always thought of the cricket ground as the Aigburth cricket ground. As Taffy said, Aigburth is "a district of Garston township whose boundary was at Aigburth Vale."

With respect, Philip, I am not sure we can say for sure how much hunting went on in Toxteth Park. If the park was purposely stocked with deer, I should think there was quite a bit, although I am not sure there are any records. Maybe someone else can clarify where there might be any records on the numbers of deer hunted.

Chris

Hi Philip et al.

As a child, I had always thought of the cricket ground as the Aigburth cricket ground.

Chris

There is (or used to be) an Aigburth cricket club. It is located in St. Michaels Hamlet. I believe it is in Southwood Rd. or Bucheleuch(sp) St. :037:

There is (or used to be) an Aigburth cricket club. It is located in St. Michaels Hamlet. I believe it is in Southwood Rd. or Bucheleuch(sp) St. :037:

I think it's called Aigburth and St Michael's Cricket Club. I suppose with the Liverpool Cricket Club in the real Aigburth, they had to tag Aigburth onto the St Michael's name.

Hi Philip et al.


With respect, Philip, I am not sure we can say for sure how much hunting went on in Toxteth Park. If the park was purposely stocked with deer, I should think there was quite a bit, although I am not sure there are any records. Maybe someone else can clarify where there might be any records on the numbers of deer hunted.

Chris

With respect, Chris, I think we can be quite sure that Toxteth Park was seldom used for hunting.
King John set it up for himself, and it is known that he hardly ever visited it.
And to ask for records of how many deer were hunted - that's going a bit too far! :)

With respect, Chris, I think we can be quite sure that Toxteth Park was seldom used for hunting.
King John set it up for himself, and it is known that he hardly ever visited it.
And to ask for records of how many deer were hunted - that's going a bit too far! :)

Well not really, Philip, bureaucracy goes back a long way. As you may know, I am a War of 1812 historian and one of the things that startled me is how bureaucratic things were back then, with standardized forms for military or prison purposes, and so on. We recently ran a series of articles in Ripperologist on the English coroners system and one of the things the coroners had to do was to account for what happened to whales and other "royal fish." In as much as there were (I assume) gamekeepers to take care of a royal preserve such as Toxteth Park, it could be that such records still exist somewhere.

Chris

I think it's called Aigburth and St Michael's Cricket Club. I suppose with the Liverpool Cricket Club in the real Aigburth, they had to tag Aigburth onto the St Michael's name.

It is still just listed as Aigburth Cricket club, I just googled it.
The reason I remember it is that it was one of the trick questions in the Hackney carriage knowledge test when it was under the control of the police back in the early 60's. :037:

I think it's called Aigburth and St Michael's Cricket Club. I suppose with the Liverpool Cricket Club in the real Aigburth, they had to tag Aigburth onto the St Michael's name.

It is still just listed as Aigburth Cricket club, I just googled it.
The reason I remember it is that it was one of the trick questions in the Hackney carriage knowledge test when it was under the control of the police back in the early 60's. :037:

Thanks, Shy and Taffy!

Chris

I think that there has been leakage between postcode and district with everyone who lives in L17 saying that they live in Aigburth. One way to manage this would be to move the signs for Aigburth from Aigburth Vale to the beginning of Aigburth Road where most people in this area regard it as starting. People from L8 often accuse people who live in the area between Dingle Lane and Aigburth Vale as saying they live in 'Aigburth' for snobbish reasons. That may be part of it. So just where is Aigburth? Is it the suburb south of Aigburth Vale or is it the soul of South Liverpool north of this area? Is it a bit of both?

Move the signs LCC! Map the district onto the psychological reality that is Aigburth!

Interestingly the council already have a sign at the junction of Dingle Lane and Aigburth Rd. It says Aigburth 1 1/4 miles !!! that is along Aigburth Rd. Of course the original name for this stretch of Aigburth Rd was Park Rd as in Toxteth Park.

The Aigburth sign on Victoria Rd, Aigburth Vale is one of the few actually sited in the right place. Interestingly the council placed another Aigburth sign on Riverside Drive near to the municipal tip and Jericho Lane. This was almost in the right place but of course it caused a great rumpus as all those delightful people living along Riverside Drive felt they were no longer in "Aigburth" which of course they weren't really in the first place. In the event the council succumbed to political pressure, removed the sign but did not resite it.

Further along Riverside Drive they put a sign which said "Dingle". Again correctly sited near Promenade Gardens L17. This meant that all those people in those expensive L17 Riverside Drive Houses now not only didn't live in Aigburth but dread of dread actually lived in the Dingle. Oh dear they couldn't have that, so the Dingle sign was moved back about 1/2 mile towards the town centre.

So all this leads to an interesting question. The area around Dingle Lane has changed its post code from L8 to L17. Part of it used to be the old Dingle Oil terminal. Does this mean that in the last 20 years, this has now changed from being in the Dingle to being in Aigburth. Reading Jericho's post one can only be drawn to that conclusion. Or are the people living near the Dingle allotments wrong to say they live in Aigburth.

A Dingle of course is a wooded valley which the council kindly filled with household rubbish around 1900. I'm not sure how the whole of the area along Park Rd came to be called the Dingle or indeed the logic of the council's new siting of the Dingle sign at Park St near the old Brunswick Dock. Of course as there still is no other sign all the way along Riverside Drive, the people there still live, according to the council, in the Dingle.

There is (or used to be) an Aigburth cricket club. It is located in St. Michaels Hamlet. I believe it is in Southwood Rd. or Bucheleuch(sp) St. :037:

The entrance to AIGBURTH cricket club is indeed in Southwood Road. It used to be possible to access it via Buckland Street but that entrance has been closed for some years. As far as I'm aware, the cricket club in Aigburth Road has always been known as LIVERPOOL cricket club. I'm a member and play tennis there. :Colorz_Grey_PDT_16:

Interestingly the council already have a sign at the junction of Dingle Lane and Aigburth Rd. It says Aigburth 1 1/4 miles !!! that is along Aigburth Rd. Of course the original name for this stretch of Aigburth Rd was Park Rd as in Toxteth Park.

The Aigburth sign on Victoria Rd, Aigburth Vale is one of the few actually sited in the right place. Interestingly the council placed another Aigburth sign on Riverside Drive near to the municipal tip and Jericho Lane. This was almost in the right place but of course it caused a great rumpus as all those delightful people living along Riverside Drive felt they were no longer in "Aigburth" which of course they weren't really in the first place. In the event the council succumbed to political pressure, removed the sign but did not resite it.

Further along Riverside Drive they put a sign which said "Dingle". Again correctly sited near Promenade Gardens L17. This meant that all those people in those expensive L17 Riverside Drive Houses now not only didn't live in Aigburth but dread of dread actually lived in the Dingle. Oh dear they couldn't have that, so the Dingle sign was moved back about 1/2 mile towards the town centre.

So all this leads to an interesting question. The area around Dingle Lane has changed its post code from L8 to L17. Part of it used to be the old Dingle Oil terminal. Does this mean that in the last 20 years, this has now changed from being in the Dingle to being in Aigburth. Reading Jericho's post one can only be drawn to that conclusion. Or are the people living near the Dingle allotments wrong to say they live in Aigburth.

A Dingle of course is a wooded valley which the council kindly filled with household rubbish around 1900. I'm not sure how the whole of the area along Park Rd came to be called the Dingle or indeed the logic of the council's new siting of the Dingle sign at Park St near the old Brunswick Dock. Of course as there still is no other sign all the way along Riverside Drive, the people there still live, according to the council, in the Dingle.

It's only recently that ANY signs for the Dingle have been seen at all. You're right to say that the area around what used to be the old oil terminal is now Liverpool 17. Personally, I think this is a con. It should be part of L8 but for some reason people spending 300k on a house don't want a L8 postcode. How nouveau riche is that?! The residents petitioned to have the Dingle sign taken down when it was erected. However, for the sake of consistency, I'm happy for anyone living in L17 to say that they live in Aigburth. With the forthcoming development of the festival site, I wouldn't be at all surprised if that whole area becomes officially known as St Michaels-in-the-Hamlet. Sounds better than Aigburth to me :Colorz_Grey_PDT_16:

The entrance to AIGBURTH cricket club is indeed in Southwood Road. It used to be possible to access it via Buckland Street but that entrance has been closed for some years. As far as I'm aware, the cricket club in Aigburth Road has always been known as LIVERPOOL cricket club. I'm a member and play tennis there. :Colorz_Grey_PDT_16:

Thanks, Jericho. I found this interesting history of Liverpool Cricket Club which shows that after its foundation in 1807 the club played in various locations in the Liverpool area before settling at the Aigburth Road and Riversdale Road location:

http://www.freewebs.com/liverpoolcricketclub/

Chris

With the forthcoming development of the festival site, I wouldn't be at all surprised if that whole area becomes officially known as St Michaels-in-the-Hamlet. Sounds better than Aigburth to me :Colorz_Grey_PDT_16:

I'd agree with that. The area is after all called St Michael's on all Liverpool OS maps and the boundary for St Michael in the Hamlet, Toxteth Park, Church runs all the way along Riverside Drive to the now culverted River Jordan in Otterspool Park. This stream was of course the official Toxteth boundary. St Anne's Church Aigburth parish being on the other side of the River Jordan.

I should perhaps declare an interest in this curiosity about why the Lark Lane and St Michael's area became called Aigburth. Our family lived at 32 Parkfield Rd, Sefton Park in the late 19th C. Census information shows this correctly to be in Toxteth Park. It was never said to be in Aigburth at that time. Nowadays of course that address is the local abortion clinic !!!

That Dingle sign above (near Herculaneum Dock), was one of the new signs that was in the CORRECT place. It disappeared before I could take a pic. It makes me chuckle that a lot of the disputes revolve around the name Toxteth.
Postcodes are just a moneymaker for the Post Office and the developers of new estates (they can add £1,000s to the price of each new house). They can change whenever a developer wants to buy a 'better' Postcode.
There was a section of nearby Sefton Street that went the other way as it changed from L3 to L8, about 10-15 years ago
So far as I know, the area around Dingle Point/Promenade Gardens/start of Riverside Drive has never had any history with Aigburth...but it certainly has had with Dingle.
Doubtless the Garden Festival Hall site will be given a L17 postcode...but it's Dingle really.

That Dingle sign above (near Herculaneum Dock), was one of the new signs that was in the CORRECT place. It disappeared before I could take a pic. It makes me chuckle that a lot of the disputes revolve around the name Toxteth.

So far as I know, the area around Dingle Point/Promenade Gardens/start of Riverside Drive has never had any history with Aigburth...but it certainly has had with Dingle.
Doubtless the Garden Festival Hall site will be given a L17 postcode...but it's Dingle really.

Photo of Dingle sign in correct place in my earlier post Marky

So far as I know, the area around Dingle Point/Promenade Gardens/start of Riverside Drive has never had any history with Aigburth...but it certainly has had with Dingle.
Doubtless the Garden Festival Hall site will be given a L17 postcode...but it's Dingle really.

I feel uncomfortable with the 'apartheid' that goes on in the L17/L8 interface area in the Dingle. For example, it used to be possible to drive from Buckland Street into Dingle Vale. The road is now blocked just south of Shorefields comp (at the border of L8/L17). In the days of the oil terminal, you turned left at the bottom of Dingle Lane (where Promenade Gardens is now) to enter it. This road is also blocked for cars. Guess what - it's now the L8/L17 border. Personally I think this is outrageous and suggests a city ill at ease with itself.

A few images from Aigburth dated from 21DEC06

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/9109/20061221016xa7.jpg
Sefton Park Houses lining can Aigburth Drive be seen in the background above the lake which water is supplied by the Oskelsbrook which used to run down a valley to which the original settlement of Aigburth is thought to have been placed.

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/6610/20061221033vy1.jpg
Aigburth Drive All the properties lining Aigburth Drive are different and were designed to show off how wealthy you really were. Most of these properties have either been converted into flats or even demolished.

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/4114/20061221041uk4.jpg
Ashfield Road/Aigburth Road The heart of Aigburth is arguably here at the bottom of Ashfield Road where it meets Aigburth Road and Jericho Lane. As previously stated, the original village which may have been Anglo Saxon will have been situated in the vicinity of the Oskelesbrook which would have had a wooded vale. Aigburth itself means "The place of Oaks" so this location is perfectly suitable for it's name.

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/1509/20061221044aa0.jpg
Back of Lucan Road/Woodlands Road It was the victorians who really saw the potential in Aigburth. It was ideally placed for commuting into the the city but was also great for those who wanted to live in close reach of the country. Don't forget, the likes of Garston would have been reached down a lane rather than one of John Brodie's avenues from the 1930's and Speke was yet to become an housing estate surrounded by industry and avaition emmisions.

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/8968/20061221097vx6.jpg
Aigburth Road This was one of John Brodie's avenues which he built to improve links around the city. Queens Drive was meant to have a rather impressive terminus on Aigburth Road but this was never realised. Now, these roads which were once deserted, have come into their own as people commute out of the city to the likes of the Estuary Park as well as into the City Centre.

I feel uncomfortable with the 'apartheid' that goes on in the L17/L8 interface area in the Dingle. For example, it used to be possible to drive from Buckland Street into Dingle Vale. The road is now blocked just south of Shorefields comp (at the border of L8/L17). In the days of the oil terminal, you turned left at the bottom of Dingle Lane (where Promenade Gardens is now) to enter it. This road is also blocked for cars. Guess what - it's now the L8/L17 border. Personally I think this is outrageous and suggests a city ill at ease with itself.
Most People are still ashamed to say they live in L8. That's basically the root of the problem. Estate agents are still quite reluctant to tell you if a property is in L8 too. I know this from experience!
I am from L8, and am proud of it...

Hi Philip et al.

I lived at 76 Aigburth Hall Avenue nearly opposite the shops and we always thought of it as Mossley Hill.
Chris

Dear Chris

Mossley Hill per se has no defined boundaries but spreads over a number of townships including Garston within which of course lies Aigburth.

SS Matthew and James Mossley Hill Church parish boundary extends just beyond Aigburth Hall Rd, so yes you are right in one sense to say you lived in Mossley Hill. Of course you also lived in Aigburth !!! See church parish boundary web site link below

http://www.acny.org.uk/parish.php?p=22/31

Best wishes

taffy

Most People are still ashamed to say they live in L8. That's basically the root of the problem. Estate agents are still quite reluctant to tell you if a property is in L8 too. I know this from experience!
I am from L8, and am proud of it...

Liverpool would be such a dull city without L8. You're right to be proud of it. I hate the way LCC has blocked off lots of roads so that you now have endless cul-de-sacs in some parts of L8. It's just starting to get over having a 35 year long bad hair day. A few years from now it will be back where it belongs - at the heart of the city.

Most People are still ashamed to say they live in L8. That's basically the root of the problem. Estate agents are still quite reluctant to tell you if a property is in L8 too. I know this from experience!
I am from L8, and am proud of it...

There is of course another L8 on the other side of Upper Parliament St. To mask its L8 post code, the estate agents call this the Georgian Quarter though most of the houses were not built in Georgian Times. This part of L8 is not in Toxteth of course.

Interesting to note that Wallasey's first two pics (the classiest ones) aren't officially in Aigburth :Colorz_Grey_PDT_16:

Interesting to note that Wallasey's first two pics (the classiest ones) aren't officially in Aigburth :Colorz_Grey_PDT_16:

Yes this irony did occur to me too !!!

There is of course another L8 on the other side of Upper Parliament St. To mask its L8 post code, the estate agents call this the Georgian Quarter though most of the houses were not built in Georgian Times. This part of L8 is not in Toxteth of course.

And no one who lives there calls it 'the Georgian Quarter' or even its original name, Canning (although I think there is a Canning website run by a Canning enthusiast). Most locals refer to the street they live in to describe where they come from, e.g. 'I'm from Catherine Street.'

And no one who lives there calls it 'the Georgian Quarter' or even its original name, Canning (although I think there is a Canning website run by a Canning enthusiast). Most locals refer to the street they live in to describe where they come from, e.g. 'I'm from Catherine Street.'

http://canning.merseyworld.com/

Yes this irony did occur to me too !!!

Awww! I can't win ere! I am going by my "Illustrated History of Liverpool's Suburbs" which has a great image of Sefton Park Lake in the Aigburth section taken from just infront of those houses in the second image! It's a cracking book by the way if ever any of you see it on sale!

Anyway; I quite like the back jigger image; I took it because the sun was beating off the backs of those houses; was a great sight!

Anyone got any images of Fulwood Park? I would go tomorrow but I have lost me Bus Pass (Student Pass before people go thinking that I am 80 odd!) Think I know where it is but might have to start buying Weekly's! Oh dear!

Awww! I can't win ere! I am going by my "Illustrated History of Liverpool's Suburbs" which has a great image of Sefton Park Lake in the Aigburth section taken from just infront of those houses in the second image! It's a cracking book by the way if ever any of you see it on sale!

Anyway; I quite like the back jigger image; I took it because the sun was beating off the backs of those houses; was a great sight!

Anyone got any images of Fulwood Park? I would go tomorrow but I have lost me Bus Pass (Student Pass before people go thinking that I am 80 odd!) Think I know where it is but might have to start buying Weekly's! Oh dear!

You don't need to be 80 to get a bus pass.
I've got one
...at the juvenile age of 60. :)

Awww! I can't win ere! I am going by my "Illustrated History of Liverpool's Suburbs" which has a great image of Sefton Park Lake in the Aigburth section taken from just infront of those houses in the second image! It's a cracking book by the way if ever any of you see it on sale!



I took this book back to the booksellers and got my money back. I found so many errors I didn't think the publishers had a right to my money. They also would not withdraw the book pending correction of the errors.

I took this book back to the booksellers and got my money back. I found so many errors I didn't think the publishers had a right to my money. They also would not withdraw the book pending correction of the errors.

It does trip up sometimes but it's still a good read all the same! I like the Yates and Perry Map from 1768, just shows that the city is much older than people think it is!

A picture of the Ultimate Chippy Steve's!:PDT_Aliboronz_24:

A few images from Aigburth dated from 21DEC06

Nice pics, not sure about the blurbs on the 'burbs though.

Aigburth Drive All the properties lining Aigburth Drive are different and were designed to show off how wealthy you really were. Most of these properties have either been converted into flats or even demolished.

You're right, most have been converted to flats or hotels. Not many have been demolished.

Ashfield Road/Aigburth Road The heart of Aigburth is arguably here at the bottom of Ashfield Road where it meets Aigburth Road and Jericho Lane. As previously stated, the original village which may have been Anglo Saxon will have been situated in the vicinity of the Oskelesbrook which would have had a wooded vale. Aigburth itself means "The place of Oaks" so this location is perfectly suitable for it's name.

This is misleading. This is the heart of Aigburth Vale. If you live further up Aigburth Road, you are more likely to use the shops at Mersey Road, or drive to Tescos in Allerton than come here. There are one or two restaurants in the Vale but most people would go to Lark Lane to eat out, so I'm not sure how accurate it is to call this place the 'heart' when officially it marks the beginning of Aigburth!


http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/8968/20061221097vx6.jpg

Aigburth Road This was one of John Brodie's avenues which he built to improve links around the city. Queens Drive was meant to have a rather impressive terminus on Aigburth Road but this was never realised. Now, these roads which were once deserted, have come into their own as people commute out of the city to the likes of the Estuary Park as well as into the City Centre.

It is not accurate to say that Aigburth Road depicted in this photograph has ever been deserted! It has always been busy (perhaps more so when Speke and Garston were full of real factories as opposed to people answering phones at the present time). If you are talking about Queens Drive (Mossley Hill), Mossley Hill Drive and Aigburth Drive once being deserted but now used as rat runs for commuters you would be right - but the photograph shown is of Aigburth Road.

Apologies if I sound critical. I think it's great that you are doing this but I'm wondering if you may need to be a little bit more careful with how you source your material if you are going to put it on the net. A rule of thumb might be never to make strong claims unless you have robust evidence to back them up. Another way around this might be to talk about 'my impressions of Aigburth'.

I took this book back to the booksellers and got my money back. I found so many errors I didn't think the publishers had a right to my money. They also would not withdraw the book pending correction of the errors.

I'm surprised you have any local history books left! They are all extremely anecdotal. That's what I like about them :celb (23):

A good pinch of salt and they're fine.

I took this book back to the booksellers and got my money back. I found so many errors I didn't think the publishers had a right to my money. They also would not withdraw the book pending correction of the errors.

what were these errors taffy?

Apologies if I sound critical. I think it's great that you are doing this but I'm wondering if you may need to be a little bit more careful with how you source your material if you are going to put it on the net. A rule of thumb might be never to make strong claims unless you have robust evidence to back them up. Another way around this might be to talk about 'my impressions of Aigburth'.

Don't worry about it; You will obviously know more than I do because you live and experiance this part of the city more than I do.

Where would you suggest I got some robust evidence from? I would use Wikipeadia but that information is also questionable sometimes!

Don't worry about it; You will obviously know more than I do because you live and experiance this part of the city more than I do.

Where would you suggest I got some robust evidence from? I would use Wikipeadia but that information is also questionable sometimes!

Wikipedia is decidedly dodgy when it comes to either Aigburth or Toxteth. As the founder of Wilipedia is quoted as saying, you should not rely on this information to be the absolute truth. The therory is that with many people editing it, the truth will eventually emerge. In the meantime, beware !!

what were these errors taffy?

Cannot remember them now really. It was about a year or so ago when I first bought the book. I seem to remember problems with the Allerton and Toxteth information. There may be others which I forget. I originally bought it for the old photos in it but on reading the text I became sufficiently annoyed with the errors that I didn't think the publishers deserved my money, so I took the book back. My money was refunded without question.

Don't worry about it; You will obviously know more than I do because you live and experiance this part of the city more than I do.

Where would you suggest I got some robust evidence from? I would use Wikipeadia but that information is also questionable sometimes!

Quite honestly I think your pictures speak for themselves and don't really need to be grounded in a version of local history. If you enjoy giving an historical slant, why not cite your source? My favourite writer of local history is Derek Whale. Avoid Wikipedia under pain of death.

Also, it can be useful to take pictures away from the main roads. Often a main road is not typical of the local area. Avoid generalisations. If you think about your own area, it's probably multi-faceted. All areas of Liverpool are like this. So, for example, if writing about L8, don't reduce it to Park Road or Princes Road, get to know Cockburn Street, Windsor Street, Catherine Street, Lodge Lane and Hartington Road, Windermere Terrace, Sunnyside, High Park Street's monumental buildings. If writing about L17, differentiate the Aigburth Road area from St Michaels-in the-Hamlet, correctly position Lark Lane and its interesting sidestreets and capture the changing seasons of Sefton Park, Croxteth and Greenbank Drives. Differentiate between the east and west sides of Aigburth Road north of the Vale, explore Fulwood Park and Otterspool, discover the hidden (and lost) orchards at the bottom of Mersey Road. Get to know the river from this side of the water and the remains of the festival site. If writing about L18 ...

Dear Wallasey.

Speaking as a self-proclaimed local historian, I enjoyed reading your captions, and hope you will continue.
I didn't find anything to strongly disagree about, and you are right to say that some of the large houses around Sefton Park have been demolished.

We all make mistakes, and even Derek Whale has made some.
He shows a picture purporting to be a house at the Dingle, when it was in fact Elm Hall.

Wikipedia is only as reliable as the people who contribute to it, and I can't see it getting much better.
Libraries are the places for original research.

Hi Wallasey and PhilipG

I agree totally about the dangers of relying on Wikipedia. To have an encyclopedia to which absolutely anyone can contribute is inviting trouble and much duff information and biased opinion has been posted on Wikipedia in the guise of providing the facts.

Chris

Dear Wallasey.

Speaking as a self-proclaimed local historian, I enjoyed reading your captions, and hope you will continue.
I didn't find anything to strongly disagree about, and you are right to say that some of the large houses around Sefton Park have been demolished.

We all make mistakes, and even Derek Whale has made some.
He shows a picture purporting to be a house at the Dingle, when it was in fact Elm Hall.

Wikipedia is only as reliable as the people who contribute to it, and I can't see it getting much better.
Libraries are the places for original research.

I'm trying to think which houses have been demolished on Aigburth Drive shown in Wallasey's pic. Most of the new build or post Victorian build is on ground that was previously empty or part of another property's garden.

This is probably me just being touchy but, arguably, the thing about writing a caption for a pic that is more than a sentence long is that it should capture something extra. Stating that some of the houses have been demolished can create (in a Liverpool context anyway) a false impression - a sense of dereliction that couldn't be further from the truth. Whilst it is true that there are still some flats to be had for peppercorn rents, most of these houses contain the most expensive 'apartments' on the market outside city centre penthouses. These houses are HUGE. I can't think of anywhere else in the country where there is such a concentration of such huge monsters.

I'm trying to think which houses have been demolished on Aigburth Drive shown in Wallasey's pic. Most of the new build or post Victorian build is on ground that was previously empty or part of another property's garden.

This is probably me just being touchy but, arguably, the thing about writing a caption for a pic that is more than a sentence long is that it should capture something extra. Stating that some of the houses have been demolished can create (in a Liverpool context anyway) a false impression - a sense of dereliction that couldn't be further from the truth. Whilst it is true that there are still some flats to be had for peppercorn rents, most of these houses contain the most expensive 'apartments' on the market outside city centre penthouses. These houses are HUGE. I can't think of anywhere else in the country where there is such a concentration of such huge monsters.

This is what Wallasey said:

"Most of these properties have either been converted into flats or even demolished."

I find nothing wrong with that.

"or even demolished" is only saying that demolition has occurred, in no way did he imply dereliction.
Frankly, Jericho, I don't understand why you are being so critical.
If only more people would say a little more about the photos they post.

This is what Wallasey said:

"Most of these properties have either been converted into flats or even demolished."

I find nothing wrong with that.

"or even demolished" is only saying that demolition has occurred, in no way did he imply dereliction.
Frankly, Jericho, I don't understand why you are being so critical.
If only more people would say a little more about the photos they post.

As I said, I know I'm being touchy but I don't think I'm being so critical as you say. I'm just giving feedback.

Anyway, are you sure that demolition has occurred? If so, where? I'll take a walk this weekend and have a look.

As I said, I know I'm being touchy but I don't think I'm being so critical as you say. I'm just giving feedback.

Anyway, are you sure that demolition has occurred? If so, where? I'll take a walk this weekend and have a look.

Off the top of my head....
Belem Tower was demolished and replaced by one of the first tower blocks.
If that's the only one, it still counts as "or even demolition".

Is Belem Tower built on the grounds of a demolished house?

Are you sure?:Colorz_Grey_PDT_16:

Is Belem Tower built on the grounds of a demolished house?

Are you sure?:Colorz_Grey_PDT_16:

OMG, Jericho.
It's getting rather tiresome having to prove everything I say.

When you take your walk, you will see the original gateposts for the Victorian Belem Tower.
Your knowledge of the local history of Aigburth Drive is very scant, indeed!

OMG, Jericho.
It's getting rather tiresome having to prove everything I say.

When you take your walk, you will see the original gateposts for the Victorian Belem Tower.
Your knowledge of the local history of Aigburth Drive is very scant, indeed!


I don't know for sure but possibly some of the houses near Sefton Park were damaged by bombs during the Second World War? I know where I lived on Aigburth Hall Avenue a bomb hit the shops opposite causing damage to neighborhood houses including my grandparents' house.

Chris

OMG, Jericho.
It's getting rather tiresome having to prove everything I say.

When you take your walk, you will see the original gateposts for the Victorian Belem Tower.
Your knowledge of the local history of Aigburth Drive is very scant, indeed!

That block of flats is set so far back from Aigburth Drive in it's own little close (Belem Close) that I don't think you're being fair! However, I'll accept it. Belem Tower sounds rather fancy. What was it?

I don't know for sure but possibly some of the houses near Sefton Park were damaged by bombs during the Second World War? I know where I lived on Aigburth Hall Avenue a bomb hit the shops opposite causing damage to neighborhood houses including my grandparents' house.

Chris

There are a few post-war flats either side of Linnet Lane (Lark Lane end). Maybe they stem from war damage?

Properties that had to be demolished as a result of war damage shouldn't count in this argument! :Colorz_Grey_PDT_16:

For not wanting to start WW3;

When I was talking about how some properties have been demolished, I was refering to the properties on the other side of the Gatehouse which is actually Mossley Hill Drive so I apologies there.

I am actually having to do my best with the resources I have. Most of my Liverpool and Wirral books are actually at my parents house in Northumberland (where I lived for 17 years) so sourcing out info from literature is difficult. What normally happens is that I describe what is going on in the image so quite clearly in some respects, the buildings have been renovated. The restaurant (not imaged) more prominantly proves this as no doubt it was probably a private residence.

Many thanks to Chirs George and PhillipG and I fully take on board what Jericho has said, nobody likes innaccuracies at the best of times!

All the tower blocks around Sefton Park were built on the sites of Victorian houses, likewise the schools on the Sefton Park side of Ullet Road.
Mere Bank for instance (56 Ullet Road), designed by Norman Shaw, was demolished in 1965.

All the tower blocks around Sefton Park were built on the sites of Victorian houses, likewise the schools on the Sefton Park side of Ullet Road.
Mere Bank for instance (56 Ullet Road), designed by Norman Shaw, was demolished in 1965.

Thanks for this Phil. I didn't know Norman Shaw designed this house. It was built for H Douglas Horsfall and was named after the previous family home in Everton. Douglas Horsfall built St Agnes Church Toxteth Park on Ullet Rd and its daughter church in Lidderdale Rd, L15, St Pancras, Toxteth Park. Later he also built St Paul's Stoneycroft and owned the tight of presentation of St Catherine, Abercromby Sq.

All the tower blocks around Sefton Park were built on the sites of Victorian houses, likewise the schools on the Sefton Park side of Ullet Road.
Mere Bank for instance (56 Ullet Road), designed by Norman Shaw, was demolished in 1965.

Weren't Sydenham House, Buckingham house etc., and St Hilda's School built on property that fronted Ullet Road? People often forget just how classy Ullet Road used to be or indeed Croxteth Road for that matter. I can't believe that those flats overlooking Princes Park (off Ullet Road, just up from the Inglenook) were allowed to be built. There used to be at least a couple of great houses in that spot or thereabouts but sadly they were allowed to slip into terminal decay. Vaguely recall seeing the old gate posts still standing last time I looked but that might have been wishful thinking.

There was a recreation ground between Holt House and Mere Bank, and a plot big enough for one house on the other side of Mere Bank.
These were the only open sites on that side of Ullet Road.
All the rest of that side (including the sites of the post-war tower blocks) was occupied by large Victorian Houses.
The new flats by Prince's Park were built on the site of Park Nook.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/maxmolyneux/sets/72157594541447897/

Still looking through more but theres two of what I tried with my Sony.

Might redo the church pic though.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/maxmolyneux/sets/72157594541447897/

Still looking through more but theres two of what I tried with my Sony.

Might redo the church pic though.

Good work, Max. The church pics look great to me.

Chris

There a couple of newer properties around Sefton Park, between Lark Lane and the Alicia Hotel...Bloomfield Green, for one and some ugly new low level brick building. Maps around 100 years ago show large houses around Bloomfield Green.

Have a walk down Lark Lane, Julia, Nice Area! and look down Hadassah Grove, check out the Lark Lane Web Site, and also handy for Sefton Park! Good Hunting!

Good hunting. I thought it was suggested that there was seldom hunting at Sefton (Toxteth) park? :unibrow:

Good hunting. I thought it was suggested that there was seldom hunting at Sefton (Toxteth) park? :unibrow:

How was it that they had all those larks in Lark Lane then? :unibrow:

Chris

Hi Chris /Everyone,

Now that I have got my little mitts on 2 tickets for the 'James Maybrick Trial' I was wondering if anyone out there can recommend any cheap and cheerful b&b's in the area near to the cricket club.I've been on t'internet (I'm from Bolton) all day but have'nt had any luck. They're all far too posh for me. Hope someone out there can help!
Cheers and garlic bread,

Sue.

Too posh - TOO POSH!!!!

Pitch a tent in sevvy park then. :)

Too posh - TOO POSH!!!!

Pitch a tent in sevvy park then. :)

:shock:

Or try the Grange Hotel.
Only a couple of minutes walk away.

Hi Chris /Everyone,

Now that I have got my little mitts on 2 tickets for the 'James Maybrick Trial' I was wondering if anyone out there can recommend any cheap and cheerful b&b's in the area near to the cricket club.I've been on t'internet (I'm from Bolton) all day but have'nt had any luck. They're all far too posh for me. Hope someone out there can help!
Cheers and garlic bread,

Sue.


Camp out in the old tunnel that is situated in Otterspool Park - high up on the right hand side. Complete security and rainproof :PDT11

Hi Chris /Everyone,

Now that I have got my little mitts on 2 tickets for the 'James Maybrick Trial' I was wondering if anyone out there can recommend any cheap and cheerful b&b's in the area near to the cricket club.I've been on t'internet (I'm from Bolton) all day but have'nt had any luck. They're all far too posh for me. Hope someone out there can help!
Cheers and garlic bread,

Sue.

Just over the road from the cricket club is...
http://www.innkeeperslodge.com/lodgedetail.asp?lid=30

The average price at the Grange is £35.
It was built in 1842, and I can recommend the food.
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g186337-d210787-Reviews-Grange_Hotel_and_Restaurant-Liverpool_Greater_Liverpool_England.html

The average price at the Grange is £35.
It was built in 1842, and I can recommend the food.
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g186337-d210787-Reviews-Grange_Hotel_and_Restaurant-Liverpool_Greater_Liverpool_England.html

Per Taffy over on the James Maybrick thread:

Dear Chris,

This hotel has closed and has been converted into "luxury apartments". Liverpool no longer uses the word flats and of course all apartments are of the "luxury" variety. Not quite sure what "luxury" means, perhaps running hot and cold water !!

Taffy

Per Taffy over on the James Maybrick thread:

Dear Chris,

This hotel has closed and has been converted into "luxury apartments". Liverpool no longer uses the word flats and of course all apartments are of the "luxury" variety. Not quite sure what "luxury" means, perhaps running hot and cold water !!

Taffy

Oh dear, I didn't know that.
The Grange went through various phases.
In the 1980s it was housing Social Security tenants, but after that it reverted to being a "proper" hotel.
Mrs Roberts, who lived over the road in Holmefield Lodge, treated me to the occassional meal at the Grange.

At least it hasn't been demolished.

Oh dear, I didn't know that.
The Grange went through various phases.
In the 1980s it was housing Social Security tenants, but after that it reverted to being a "proper" hotel.
Mrs Roberts, who lived over the road in Holmefield Lodge, treated me to the occassional meal at the Grange.

At least it hasn't been demolished.

Agreed, Philip, that is a good thing.

Chris

Hi Everyone,

What do you think ? Do you think I'll be able to camp in the grounds of the cricket club next to the marquee at least i'll be in walking distance.

Cheers,

Sue.:eek:

:ninja: :ninja: :ninja: Hi Everyone,
I've given up the idea of camping and booked in to the Innkeepers Lodge (many thanks to Mark A for the suggestion).I believe the grounds might be haunted by the ghost of James Maybrick ,wouldn't want to be confronted by him but then again I could always ask him outright if he'd done it!
Keep the faith

Sue

Hello, welcome to the forum :)

The minutes of the recent Three Parks Committee meeting is a right riviting read. No really it is. Most of the minutes warrant a thread in their own right especiialy the one about the man who puts rubbish in his own road so he can check if the council then sweep it up! I've just picked one at random I think might be of interest to the Aigburth crowd.

Its at http://councillors.liverpool.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.asp?CId=806&MId=5856&J=2 if you want to read it all.

68.


MOTION BY COUNCILLOR JOHN COYNE - PEDESTRIAN SAFETY ON AIGBURTH ROAD

The Committee notes that there are no safe crossing points to allow Fulwood Drive residents to cross Aigburth Road and, equivalently, no crossing facilities for residents in Eastfield Drive, Roxburgh Avenue, Wendover Avenue, Brentwood Avenue and Elsmere Avenue.

The Committee is concerned that traffic travels at excessive speed in that stretch of Aigburth Road. That traffic presents a deterrent to cyclists along Aigburth Road and to bus users who need to cross Aigburth Road to reach the bus stops.

Committee requests the Executive Board to instruct the Highways Manager to investigate the feasibility of installing a controlled crossing near the Fulwood Drive junction and in addition to consider the installation of speed and signal cameras at that location.

Minutes:

Agreed that -



The Committee notes that there are no safe crossing points to allow Fulwood Drive residents to cross Aigburth Road and, equivalently, no crossing facilities for residents in Eastfield Drive, Roxburgh Avenue, Wendover Avenue, Brentwood Avenue and Elsmere Avenue.

The Committee is concerned that traffic travels at excessive speed in that stretch of Aigburth Road. That traffic presents a deterrent to cyclists along Aigburth Road and to bus users who need to cross Aigburth Road to reach the bus stops.

Committee requests the Executive Board to instruct the Highways Manager to investigate the feasibility of installing a controlled crossing near the Fulwood Drive junction and in addition to consider the installation of speed and signal cameras at that location.


UPDATED 22 Aug 2007

Results of the Pedestrian and Vehicle survey:
The survey was undertaken on 27 June 2007 between the hours of 7am and 7pm on the section of Aigburth Road between Normanton Avenue and Roxburgh Avenue. The results of this survey showed that the pedestrian demand was insufficient to justify the introduction of a pedestrian crossing facility in this area. There has been 1 reported slight injury accident in the latest 3 year period up to the end of December 2005. This accident involved a vehicle that had originally been parked, pulling into Aigburth Road and colliding with a vehicle travelling northwest bound. A pedestrian crossing cannot therefore be recommended in this location.

With regard to the request for a safety camera to be installed in this area, there are no plans to introduce fixed or mobile safety cameras through the Merseyside Road Safety Partnership (MRSP) in this area in the 2007/08 financial year, as the area does not meet the Merseyside wide agreed criteria.

However, the issue of vehicles speeding in this area will be referred to
Merseyside Police requesting that they undertake speed enforcement,
commensurate with their other operational duties.

It's a bit of stop and start activity in that part of Aigburth Road caused by the bunching up of traffic at the traffic lights at Aigburth Vale and Lark Lane. It's never really continuous, so the most anyone will have to wait will be about two minutes. I don't think another speed camera is the answer. The one between Lark Lane and Dingle Lane already causes drivers to break hurriedly and dangerously when they spot it. I'm not sure how many people would want to cross the road at Fulwood Drive? What is there to cross the road for?

It's a bit of stop and start activity in that part of Aigburth Road caused by the bunching up of traffic at the traffic lights at Aigburth Vale and Lark Lane. It's never really continuous, so the most anyone will have to wait will be about two minutes. I don't think another speed camera is the answer. The one between Lark Lane and Dingle Lane already causes drivers to break hurriedly and dangerously when they spot it. I'm not sure how many people would want to cross the road at Fulwood Drive? What is there to cross the road for?

To get to the other side.

Thw whole length of Aigburth Rd is gridlocked at rush hour, how long will it be until they widen this carraigeway?

It's already a dual carriageway for its entire length, I can't see them adding another lane. One of the most attractive things about Aigburth Road is the central tree covered reservation, I'd hate to lose that. South Parkway car park needs to be extended to encourage more people to use the train. It's already close to full during weekdays - probably because it's free. Outside of the rush hour it's not too bad for a main road. People should be encouraged to use their cars less especially as this part of the city has excellent public transport.

Just had a nice Tapas meal at Icon, Aigburth Vale. Intimate setting, nice food and friendly service. Well recommended :PDT11

Godburth Vale.:PDT_Aliboronz_24:

http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=Tapas&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi

These Tapas meals look tasty.

Hi mate you are almost as opinionated as me!

Just had a nice Tapas meal at Icon, Aigburth Vale. Intimate setting, nice food and friendly service. Well recommended :PDT11

Thanks for the recommendation, Kev. I will bear Icon in mind for when I am in the 'Pool in May. :unibrow:

Chris

I live on the border between Aigburth, Mossley Hill and Sefton park and I think that Aigburth from about Tesco on Aigburth Road (St Michael's) all the way down to the other end is lovely. Up the top end is a bit rough. I had a friend who lived in the terraced houses up the top end and there were gun fights and things.

I went to Sudley and attended St Anne's Church so I know the south of Aigburth best and it's lovely.

Regardless of whether it's Aigburth or not, here's a pic of Sefton Park for your enjoyment. ;)

http://www.tehbox.org/photos/IMG_0441.jpg

That part Is the godlike part of Aigburth. Past that and you have St Michael's area where Tesco exists and scallies.

That part Is the godlike part of Aigburth. Past that and you have St Michael's area where Tesco exists and scallies.

You'll have to pump your bike tyres up Max and make your way to Aigburth Vale area after dusk. Any number of scallies hang around the area, usually with their spray cans in full flow. Also the Aigburth Vale old people's home is a constant target for thieves who break into the flats etc.

Know what you mean, I nearly took out two lads on a scooter as I turned into the vale this evening. Must have been no more than 15 years old, in the middle of the road with no lights (of course)...

Difficult to know which area to post this under. Todays Independent newspaper has the following article. (I'm afraid I had to look up what exactly "boho chic" is!

The Merseyside postcode that became a hub of boho chic

It has waterside, a huge park and some of the city's best pubs and restaurants. Ciara Leeming visits L17 - the postcode of choice for Liverpool's bohemians

To those in the know, Aigburth's a haven within Liverpool: somewhere to live if you like the convenience of a city but also want to escape. It's just a short bus or train ride, or 30-minute walk north, to Liverpool city centre from here, but the atmosphere could not be more different.

The city's most bohemian neighbourhood, known locally as L17, is self-contained and has a village feel more akin to somewhere like Camden than a northern city suburb.


Its quite a long article. Read it all at http://money.independent.co.uk/property/homes/article2456837.ece


Mike

RESIDENTS from a yob-plagued estate have been praised for their efforts in tackling anti-social behaviour and creating safer communities. Contour Housing Group’s Kelton Park Estate in Aigburth was recognised at a special awards ceremony for taking action after it was targeted by youths. more (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/liverpoolecho/news/echonews/tm_headline=we-took-on-the-yobs-and-won%26method=full%26objectid=19035824%26siteid=500 61-name_page.html)

Belem Close boarded-up. This is next door to Belem Tower.

Belem Close boarded-up. This is next door to Belem Tower.

Have you any idea what's happening, Marky.
I always imagined it would be rather nice to live there.
Belem Tower was one of the first towers in Liverpool (1958).
Certainly the first in South Liverpool.
Funnily enough it took its name from the mansion that had been on the same site,
and not from the fact that it was a high-rise tower.
The Victorian gate posts are still there.

I don't know what's going to happen to Belem Close, but it's been boarded up for several weeks.

What's happening with the Aigy Arms? It is all fenced off. I had my first drink in there.

What's the story with the delapidated old boarded up building facing the Inglenook pub?

What's the story with the delapidated old boarded up building facing the Inglenook pub?

The story of why it's boarded up or the history of the building?

Either way it's one of my 'Dingle Mysteries'.
I could never understand why such a comparitively small and plain building was built there considering all the other houses (without exception) round Princes Park are large mansions.
With it being rather small it's not always shown on maps, so I don't know if it predates the park.
I'm guessing that perhaps it was built as some sort of foreman's house when the park was getting laid out, but I've no evidence for that.

The story of why it's boarded up or the history of the building?

Either way it's one of my 'Dingle Mysteries'.
I could never understand why such a comparitively small and plain building was built there considering all the other houses (without exception) round Princes Park are large mansions.
With it being rather small it's not always shown on maps, so I don't know if it predates the park.
I'm guessing that perhaps it was built as some sort of foreman's house when the park was getting laid out, but I've no evidence for that.

Didn't one of the houses there belong to The Mole of Edgehill's Doctor?, it may have gone when those new flats were built a year or two ago.
I remember saying to one of the old Profs who lived in Grassendale Park ''That small house is a little near your garden isn't it?'' to which he replied 'That's my garage!'' It had upstairs windows with curtains and all those 'homely' touches. It was the original stables with living accommodation for the groom(s)

Didn't one of the houses there belong to The Mole of Edgehill's Doctor?, it may have gone when those new flats were built a year or two ago.
I remember saying to one of the old Profs who lived in Grassendale Park ''That small house is a little near your garden isn't it?'' to which he replied 'That's my garage!'' It had upstairs windows with curtains and all those 'homely' touches. It was the original stables with living accommodation for the groom(s)

Nope, Dr Raffles lived at the end of Mason Street, Edge Hill. His house was demolished and all that remains is the cellar system which is part of the Heritage Centre on Smithdown Lane.

There was a nice write up in the Guardian's colour weekend mag about Aigburth in their ''Lets move to...'' series.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,,2129886,00.html
It had a very nice photo of Lucerne Street.

There was a nice write up in the Guardian's colour weekend mag about Aigburth in their ''Lets move to...'' series.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,,2129886,00.html
It had a very nice photo of Lucerne Street.

Some interesting views on the area by Tom Dyckhoff. I'm not sure I entirely agree with him when he talks about Aigburth riding on the coat tails of Sefton Park and Mossley Hill. Half of Sefton Park is in Aigburth! Also, Aigburth Vale (where I live) was historically at least, just as wealthy as Mossley Hill. Check out the number of large villas there were here on the early 1900's OS maps...

Also, I would say transport links are more than 'not bad' they're pretty darn excellent.

I don't think property prices are rising at the moment though, i'd say the market is pretty stagnant.

This is what the city needs though, good unbiased journalism, which can help change the perception of Liverpool as all run down urban wasteland. For me, being originally from the south east of England, I can't think of a more beautiful urban area to live in than Aigburth.

Hi Ingo

Having been brought up in Mossley Hill and worked in Aigburth Vale, at Martin's Bank (later Barclay's), I can testify to the charms of Aigburth and environs. It's great to see the area receiving this type of national publicity. :PDT_Aliboronz_24:

Chris

I saw the article in the Guardian about L17 (Aigburth). It made me aware of how you have to take this kind of article with a pinch of salt. Dyckhoff clearly has to pull something together and doesn't know to sort out the wheat from the chaff. Gold spoons my arse! The whole of Sefton Park is in L17. It's not a separate, independent area. Although he mentioned two schools in Aigburth south of Aigburth Vale and one school that isn't even in L17, the article was really about Aigburth north of it. I liked the bit about 'edge'. This is true, and there are parts of L17 that are not quite 'up and come' as he put it. The house prices he gave for the area are inaccurate if you are talking about the whole of L17 and not just terraced properties or flats in the Sefton Park/Lark Lane area. No mention of Otterspool park or prom. Having said all this it was a positive piece and certainly captured the spirit of L17.

Some interesting views on the area by Tom Dyckhoff. I'm not sure I entirely agree with him when he talks about Aigburth riding on the coat tails of Sefton Park and Mossley Hill. Half of Sefton Park is in Aigburth! Also, Aigburth Vale (where I live) was historically at least, just as wealthy as Mossley Hill. Check out the number of large villas there were here on the early 1900's OS maps...




Of course those very same early 1900s OS maps show Sefton Park and the surrounding area to actually be in dear old much maligned Toxteth

Of course those very same early 1900s OS maps show Sefton Park and the surrounding area to actually be in dear old much maligned Toxteth

Or perhaps Toxteth Park? As the city expanded and Toxteth Park for whatever reason (outside protestant ecclesiastical circles) bit the dust as a term for a recently incorporated township, 'Toxteth' became the name for an area that is now part of L8. I have seen maps showing Toxteth Park covering tracts of L17 but not 'Toxteth' on its own. There probably are some.

Or perhaps Toxteth Park? As the city expanded and Toxteth Park for whatever reason (outside protestant ecclesiastical circles) bit the dust as a term for a recently incorporated township, 'Toxteth' became the name for an area that is now part of L8. I have seen maps showing Toxteth Park covering tracts of L17 but not 'Toxteth' on its own. There probably are some.

See Gore's Liverpool Directory 1894:

"An infectious diseases hospital, erected on land belonging to the Mersey Docks and Habours Board, at Park hill, Dingle, Toxteth park, was opened September 23rd 1884, and is available for 160 patients, 4 wards having been added in 1890; during 1892 439 patients were admitted : the hospital is under the management of the Hospitals committee of Liverpool."

Or perhaps Toxteth Park? As the city expanded and Toxteth Park for whatever reason (outside protestant ecclesiastical circles) bit the dust as a term for a recently incorporated township, 'Toxteth' became the name for an area that is now part of L8. I have seen maps showing Toxteth Park covering tracts of L17 but not 'Toxteth' on its own. There probably are some.

London Gazette 1972

SCOTT, Evelyn Maud ...
Top Flat, 2 Devonshire Road, Toxteth Park, Liverpool 8.
17th February 1972.
Bell & Joynson, 6 Castle Street, Liverpool L2 , Solicitors. (Henry Arthur Fry) ...
19th June 1972

From a postcard I just bought on ebay:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1196/1196553882_c32811a6cd.jpg

:Smiliz_Kingz_PDT_13 very good :034: