NWDA the enemy of Liverpool

[Harry]

Its quite obvious that the phoney North West development agency has a not-so hidden agenda to promote manchester at the expense of Liverpool.
Everything about any body that contains the words North West trying to influence policy, spending or otherwise must be rejected out of hand by all Liverpool City organisations.
There is no North West region, it exists only in the heads of unelected quango leaders leeching off our city.
While billions has been spent and promised up the M62, we had to go cap in hand to Europe for any little bauble we received and were made to feel like beggars.
The two faced way that we are treated in comparison to our ugly sister makes my blood boil as does the pathetic lack of proper response or leadership shown by all our politicians, business leaders and media spokespeople.
Time to create a new political party to stand up for the city. We could call it the Liverpool party and give everyone the chance to reject the pathetic lack of representation and decision making that takes place with the present rabble forever squabbling and scoring cheap political points while the city rots.

[Howie]

I think what we are seeing is due to Government pressure to make savings. I would agree with you that we have failed to fight our corner successfully and got the raw end of the deal in comparison to Manchester. I would also agree that what development there has been here is over-concentrated in the city centre. Nice of the NWDA to bail out Merseytravel to the tune of ?3million pounds for Mann Island tho'. :rolleyes:

[Waterways]

Manchester was the first manufacturing city
Liverpool was a major commercial city

London sucked the life out of the two of them, especially Liverpool, London's main rival - Manchester never was a rival. London is a black hole for the rest of the country. It sucks the best brains out of them. Talking to a South African businessman tonight. He said, "we had a call centre in Wavertree Business Park, but we can't get top managers and the like there so don't bother even thinking of expanding".

London divides and rules. It will play Manchester against Liverpool. Why does a city with a commercial history get ignored for commercial setups in favouring of a city whose background is manufacturing? It doesn't fit. Manchester gets the nod until a threat in some way to London, then London will divert work to Liverpool to counter.

Until the seat of government is moved out of London it will not change. It is unhealthy for the country to concentrate power in London-Oxford-Cambridge power triangle. The rest all suffer because of it.

[Waterways]

I would also agree that what development there has been here is over-concentrated in the city centre.

That is where it was needed, as still is needed. Look at Merseyrail/Merseytravel. Talk of opening the Burscough Curves, and the Halton Curves near Runcorn, Line to Skem from Kirkby, which are not even in Merseyside. The Bidston-Wrexham line too.

The city has 4 miles is disused tunnel under the centre and inner-city which is waiting to merge into Merseyrail and make it a proper metro system, and not just a commuter rail system shifting people in from the outlaying suburbs. That is where the money should be spent. Create the transport infrastructure and investment will come, not play about on the edges of the Merseyrail network.
http://www.liverpoolwiki.org/Extending_Rapid_Transit_Merseyrail

[Howie]

Life's not all about transport links. Take a walk around Everton, Kensington, Norris Green, etc. and have a look at what's needed!

[Waterways]

Life's not all about transport links. Take a walk around Everton, Kensington, Norris Green, etc. and have a look at what's needed!

The inner city areas are bottomless pits for public money. Money goes in to keep them from starving and rioting and nothing, or little, materializes. Spend money wisely, and then investment follows with the districts becoming self sustaining and the bottomless pit disappears. Transport infrastructure is key to it, although as you say not everything.

If the centres does well it ripples out.

[Howie]

My grandchildren may benefit from such 'trickle-down' but I'll be long gone!

[Broliv]

If we had a labour council we would get just as much good treatment off the government as Manchester does. What annoys me is that we have labour MP's but as a collective they don't seem to have as much clout as their manchester counterparts.

Come the next election we need to be anything other than labour, better to stay Liberal in city council and MPs or even bite the bullet and vote conservative.

Things will get worse after the next election. Not because of any prejudice against liverpool or the north but because the conservatives won't have any power base here. They are pragmatists after all and will look to support their own councils and MPs before dishing out the scraps to everyone else.

[Waterways]

My grandchildren may benefit from such 'trickle-down' but I'll be long gone!

The trickle down will come quite quick. At the end of Lodge Lane is Sefton Park. There is quite a bit of investment there. Put an underground Merseyrail station in the centre of Lodge Lane and investment will run up Lodge lane. Now, the private sector avoid the road like the plague.

The point is spend on projects that pick a place up, not fill holes in it - that is pouring money into bottomless pits.

[Waterways]

If we had a labour council we would get just as much good treatment off the government as Manchester does. What annoys me is that we have labour MP's but as a collective they don't seem to have as much clout as their manchester counterparts.


Manchester all point one way. The Brunswick Quay debacle emphasis the Liverpool political conflicts. All Labour councillors voted for the project, all Lib-Dems, bar one, against.



Come the next election we need to be anything other than labour, better to stay Liberal in city council and MPs or even bite the bullet and vote conservative.


Liverpool needs a Labour council. I have found they are more in tune to what the city needs to project it forwards.

Vote Tory? Are you mad? Are you a sycophant? A bunch of Eton public school boys (most of in the shadow cabinet are them) running the country for themselves? Find out how the country is run and who are the greatest beneficiaries. When you do you will never vote for them. Every social reform they have opposed and even wanted to keep hereditary peers as well.



Things will get worse after the next election. Not because of any prejudice against liverpool or the north but because the conservatives won't have any power base here. They are pragmatists after all and will look to support their own councils and MPs before dishing out the scraps to everyone else.

The Tories are a southern England countryside-centric party. The country aspect does not mean that much as most people are urbanites. They maintain the Oxford-Cambridge-London power base maintaining a ruling class.

The Tories pragmatists? News to me - they are obsessed with petty snobbery and aim to get that vote. If they get in power they will undo much of the good work Blair and Brown have done. They are vindictive - look at the miners, the demolition of the Festival of Britain site within weeks, in London. We could go on, and on, and on.

We need the expertise of the current government to get us through the world financial problems in the coming years ahead.

[Waterways]

Talking to a South African businessman tonight. He said, "we had a call centre in Wavertree Business Park, but we can't get top managers and the like there so don't bother even thinking of expanding".


Talking to a Danish businessman last night. I mentioned Liverpool. He quipped in and said it is a dump. Being defensive I countered. He said he went to see a football game at Anfield watching I think a Danish side. His impressions were from around Anfield football ground, which is dire to say the least and gives the wrong impression of the city. This guy, as the South African, had power and influence to set up business in cities - and Liverpool was way down the list.

Which points to that a stadium that attracts many thousands of visitors to the city, British and foreign, must be in an area that that gives a favorable impression. Building a new stadium on Stanley Park and tarting up Goodison Park is really the wrong thing to do. Vauxhall on the Northern Line is a good location - the council have suggested this location a number of times. It will be within walking distance of Liverpool Waters when complete giving really good impression. Please do not suggest building a stadium on Clarence Dock as Liverpool Waters is planned for this World Heritage Site, and I can't think of worse site for stadium - waterlocked.

Walton Hall Park is is a great site if the Outer Loop is re-commissioned.
http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16295&highlight=stadia

You never get a second chance to make a first impression. First impressions count.

[petromax]

More good news...

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/business-news/2009/07/09/nwda-names-peel-holdings-boss-robert-hough-as-new-chair-92534-24113849/

[pablo42]

Nice one Waterways. I agree with your remarks about Goodison and Anfield, they are a tip. Not a good welcome to the City. I think we should go the way of a super stadium. One that will become a tourist attraction in itself. I wouldn't like any football stadium too near the City though. I remember the football crowds of the eighties. Them days could well come back.

[Robert Boulter]

I dont understand why anyone would want to vote for any of the old political parties,as for the Labour party,a bunch of Champagne socialist.their more right wing than the tories.Take a look at the Blairs,How did they come to own millions of pounds worth of properties?And as for the European human rights act,how much did Mrs Blair make out of that.We need a political system where the MP represents the community he/she serves and does'nt do the bidding of the "party" like so many do.This is'nt democracy,its still rich people controlling everything.Many of my relatives fought and died in the second world war for the freedoms we enjoy now,but Blair and co have given most of these away to the unelected (and corrupt)EU.You must be looking at Labour through rose tinted glasses,they got us into a war we can't possibly win,costing billions whilst take the lives of young men.Look up the Jury Team,a new look at politics,honest and democratic.

[Waterways]

I dont understand why anyone would want to vote for any of the old political parties,as for the Labour party

You are very confused.

[pablo42]

Nice one guys. No matter who you vote for you end up with second raters. We need to pick out the best from all parties, I think that's how the Americans do it. That should curtail the party system, or at least slow it down. It's a shame that we have a lot of talent in the smaller parties and they're not given a chance. Except for Mandellson and now Lord Sugar.

[Waterways]

Nice one guys. No matter who you vote for you end up with second raters. We need to pick out the best from all parties, I think that's how the Americans do it. That should curtail the party system, or at least slow it down. It's a shame that we have a lot of talent in the smaller parties and they're not given a chance. Except for Mandellson and now Lord Sugar.

I am ABC, Anyone But Conservative. I only vote for parties that have social justice on their list. They do not and never have. They have introduced no social laws whatsoever. NHS seeds by Liberals then Labour. Works acts, pensions acts, etc all by Lab or Lib. Only sycophants or confused people vote Tory. Just read a little political history.

The 12 years since 1997 to the world-wide Credit Crunch hit us, which the UK is handling better than France, Germany and the USA, the UK saw the greatest economic boom and sustained economic growth - FACT. I want them to stay in power as they have a great track record. You don't get rid of a winning team. The alternative is frightening.

[pablo42]

I am ABC, Anyone But Conservative. I only vote for parties that have social justice on their list. They do not and never have. They have introduced no social laws whatsoever. NHS seeds by Liberals then Labour. Works acts, pensions acts, etc all by Lab or Lib. Only sycophants or confused people vote Tory. Just read a little political history.

The 12 years since 1997 to the world-wide Credit Crunch hit us, which the UK is handling better than France, Germany and the USA, the UK saw the greatest economic boom and sustained economic growth - FACT. I want them to stay in power as they have a great track record. You don't get rid of a winning team. The alternative is frightening.

These people aren't Labour. Most of the reform now is coming from Europe.

[Waterways]

These people aren't Labour. Most of the reform now is coming from Europe.

They are Labour. They have introduced social and constitutional reform. 66 of the ejected Hereditary peers owned between them the eqiv of 4.5 average sized English counties. Anti-social laws are superb. 200 problem families have been removed to give them social lessons, and it is to be upped and about time. Anti-litter measures are becoming effective, except in Liverpool of course. ASBOs, etc introduced. NHS improved beyond any timer in history, etc, etc.

No reform is coming from the EU, they only have limited power.

[pablo42]

Waterways, we will have to agree to disagree. These politicians are a disgrace. All parties, and the next will be no different.

[Waterways]

Waterways, we will have to agree to disagree. These politicians are a disgrace. All parties, and the next will be no different.

I am only interested in facts:

I always think, where were they in the past 12 years? Selective amnesia clearly set in about anything pre-1997. And where were they in the years from 1997 to the world-wide Credit Crunch, that came in from the USA.

FACTS.....

The city of Liverpool has changed immeasurably in the past 12 years - but maybe those buildings are all cardboard cutouts.
Maybe the strongest economy in the world for 12 years, was a figment of our imaginations.
Maybe the strongest currency in the world for around 12 years was a figment of our imaginations.
Maybe the super low interest rates were a figment of our imaginations.
Maybe the super low inflation rates were a figment of our imaginations.
Maybe the longest ever economic growth in British history, under Blair/Brown was a figment of our imaginations.
Maybe the boom and bust of the Thatcher/Major years, and absent under Labour were a figment of our imaginations.
Maybe the near zero unemployment was a figment of our imaginations.
Maybe the economy so strong that we could absorb 1 million eastern Europeans was a lie - who were all those Polish fellas then?
Maybe the Brown G20 world-wide rescue plan was a lie - it is now being reported by a number of economists in a few countries, that the recession is now over.
In many respects a worse financial crash than 1929, but no soup lines, so well plugged, and no massive unemployment as was predicated 18 months ago.


Look at the facts that matter to a country at large. The Labour government over the 12 years from 1997 been the best in modern times. They plugged the Credit Crunch too - G20 meeting in London, etc, did anyone read the papers and watch TV?

The history over the past 100 years is enough to give the Tory Party a wide berth and cast to oblivion. In 1918 only 10% of men had the vote. The Lab and Lib enfranchised the working classes and full voting ensued. Then look at it over that past 30 years - disaster. Yet one generation does not learn from the previous and makes the same mistakes.

The Labour party introduced the housing policy for the soldiers coming back from the war, Homes for Heroes. The Liberal government however was a bit backwards, however brought in the national insurance act, employment, education and the first seeds of the NHS, with Labour fully implementing post WW2. People just forget the great achievement from the past. The Conservative Party, well what they have done during the past was clearly disastrous and giving them another chance to do so again? You must learn from history.

The Tories have opposed most social reform, brought in little to none of it themselves, having repealed a lot of it at times. Most people in the UK are Lab or Lib and of total eligible to votes only about 20% go to the Tories, yet they get in far too regularly and ruin matters

The Tory Party has a naive Eton old school boy shadow cabinet. All old school chums - how cosy for them - all with silly those arrrcents. The sort of thing you see in third world countries. Mainly from the same school and unis and always have been. Only two unis matter to them, as the other 97 are dismissed as not being "the right type", so all the rest are capable of ruling. Trust the economy with them? Are you serious?

World-wide, Liberal/Social Democrats improved the living standards and quality of life of people. In the 1950/60 the country was supposed to be economically contracting, yet living standards for the masses were rising. The poorer, the vast majority of the people, were getting more of the share. The rich were not as rich and said the country was going to the dogs. My Dad didn't give a toss about shedding an empire, all he was concerned about was the standard of living for his family, which was rising because of social justice.

Tory PM, McMillan said in 1958, "you have never had it so good". What tripe!!! The country was full of slum housing with millions without running hot water or inside toilets. I wonder who he was talking about? Many slum dwellers actually believed him as well.

Do not tell yourself lies and believe them. Look at facts.

[pablo42]

OK Stalin, Labour are great. Everyone else is rubbish.

[petromax]

Fair dues. Which bits of Waterways comment can you actually disagree with?

[pablo42]

Fair dues. Which bits of Waterways comment can you actually disagree with?

It would take far too long. Labour have done some great things. Just don't think this Government have either done much nor is it Labour. Wasn't there a guy transferred to St Helens a while ago. He had a butler down south and he was the Labour MP for St Helens. Travesty. There are probably some great local people who could have done that.

[petromax]

I lived overseas for a while. We had a maid and a gardener. We gave them a living. Does that make me a Tory?

[ItsaZappathing]

I lived overseas for a while. We had a maid and a gardener. We gave them a living. Does that make me a Tory?

Not at all. It makes you a lucky so and so:PDT11

[stan howard]

harry i thought that the nwda and peel holdings were the same company until; i read that the new head chap at the nwda is the ex head chap of peel holdings. i dont know how i could have got mixed up.

[pablo42]

I lived overseas for a while. We had a maid and a gardener. We gave them a living. Does that make me a Tory?

I lived overseas for a while and had two rent boys. Does that make me gay. Come to think of it....

[Waterways]

OK Stalin, Labour are great. Everyone else is rubbish.

I only go on facts. Stalin? I detect brainwashing here.

[petromax]

I lived overseas for a while and had two rent boys. Does that make me gay. Come to think of it....

No, not gay - just greedy...:)

[pablo42]

No, not gay - just greedy...:)

I only had two, one for each foot.

[pablo42]

I only go on facts. Stalin? I detect brainwashing here.

Sorry Waterways, I was being flippant.

[Robert Boulter]

I believe the old political system is out dated.Labour are no longer socialists.Most have the same benefit as the tories with a private education,they are either lawers or rich business men,who now nothing of socialism,which by definition,means equality to all.We need a new system,transparant and wholly democratic,I dont think it will ever happen though.The greedy people in charge will fight tooth and nail to keep what they've got.I'll carry on paying my taxes and complaining like everyone else.This country had huge economical growth based on dept,and now we are paying a heavy price,if Gordon Brown is such a great financial genius,why did he sell our gold reserves at an all time low price? And then give the banks billions of pounds of our money without any kind of conditions (they still rip us off,but use our own money to do it) and still pay themselves huge wages.It seems absurd that failure on such a massive scale is rewarded with wealth beyond most peopls wildest dreams(Fred the shred etc).Look at the bigger picture,your right,Labour and Libs did do some great things for this country,but not this bunch of imposters.

[Waterways]

nothing of socialism,which by definition,means equality to all.


It does not. I means social justice. The Tories believe that money solves all, by people acquiring as much as possible and then the trickle down effect from rich to poor. History has proven that it never works, as the top tier keep most for themselves and form self interest groups or in the UK a self interest class.



if Gordon Brown is such a great financial genius,


Maybe your memory needs reviving. See factual post:
Click here (http://www.yoliverpool.com/forum/showpost.php?p=182244&postcount=21)

[petromax]

aw come on! It was a great bubble. We all went with it - nobody complained at the time. Now we're all in the poo.

Just maybe, we'll start making stuff again and selling it for money, not borrowing money to pay for money already borrowed - feeding the banks.

It started in the late eighties and it almost had an inevitability about it. Labour went with it or we'd have been left behind in the gold rush (and moaning about how well others were doing). Now the money economy is a busted flush but hindsight is A1.

Welcome to the world of starting small and for most, maybe even staying small. It used to be called 'thrift'. Too much growth is dangerous. It might even be good for the planet.

[Waterways]

aw come on! It was a great bubble. We all went with it - nobody complained at the time. Now we're all in the poo.


The Credit Crunch came from abroad, the British economy was sound. The City of London is primarily international trade, so the UK cannot be immune to world trends or events.

[petromax]

There were huge pools of money floating around the UK economy. Nobody looked too hard where it was coming from. Answer was; overseas investment based on unrealistic paper value of property. There was no other 'real' economy.

If you look at the 'balance of trade' figures (remember them?!) for the last thirty years, they are a disaster story even including inputs from North Sea Oil and the London Money market.

It wasn't sound at all.

[Robert Boulter]

The credit crunch came from the banks and investers who risked too much and lost.The boom time was fake,borrowing huge amounts of money to buy flash cars and big houses doesnt make you wealthy,it just means it belongs to someone else until you pay it back.Does'nt social justice and equality mean the same thing?The people who make a real difference in this world(teachers,nurses etc)get by on half decent wages while people who contribute nothing practicle (footballers,actors etc)seem to earn extraordinary amounts of money.I understand why some will always get more than others,thats how we advance,hard work and efficient productivity deserves some reward,while laziness and incompetence doesnt.We all know what "2 legs good,4 legs bad" means,we're only human and a lot of us are greedy,and thats why comunism and socialism almost always fails.

[pablo42]

Gotta agree with you guys. I reckon the big bonuses didn't help neither. A lot of them got bonuses in the millions, who wouldn't massage the figures for that.

[Waterways]

More ale house types of opinionated misinformation. I am only interested in facts.

Some banks, mainly in the USA, were lending to to people who could not repay. Banks traded debts with other over international borders. Banks also lent heavily to each other over international bornders. The bad debts meant banks would not lend, even to each other (Northern Rock suffered), then the domino effect started.

Those who say the government faked an economic boom for 12 years are not in the real world. I never imagined it, it did happen.

Stop reading that idiot Littlejohn in the Daily Mail.

[petromax]

More ale house types of opinionated misinformation. I am only interested in facts.

Some banks, mainly in the USA, were lending to to people who could not repay. Banks traded debts with other over international borders. Banks also lent heavily to each other over international bornders. The bad debts meant banks would not lend, even to each other (Northern Rock suffered), then the domino effect started.

Those who say the government faked an economic boom for 12 years are not in the real world. I never imagined it, it did happen.

Stop reading that idiot Littlejohn in the Daily Mail.

This alehouse type reads quite a number of papers, considers himself reasonably informed but has never heard of Littlejohnl!!

I also went to school and remember being taught about the South Sea Bubble (18th century?). We've been here before. Imaginary booms come and go all the time.

MOST of UK banks packaged up overseas debt against dodgy or imaginary valuation of property and sold it on and on, round and round. UK banks were particularly good at it and London prospered as a born-again global financial centre.

No one complained. Everyone was cool, money was cheap. It wasn't some band of naughty fools of foreigners. We should all share just a little responsibility, don't you think.?

[pablo42]

This alehouse type reads quite a number of papers, considers himself reasonably informed but has never heard of Littlejohnl!!

I also went to school and remember being taught about the South Sea Bubble (18th century?). We've been here before. Imaginary booms come and go all the time.

MOST of UK banks packaged up overseas debt against dodgy or imaginary valuation of property and sold it on and on, round and round. UK banks were particularly good at it and London prospered as a born-again global financial centre.

No one complained. Everyone was cool, money was cheap. It wasn't some band of naughty fools of foreigners. We should all share just a little responsibility, don't you think.?

Petromax, Can't ever see you getting your opinion across to Waterways. He is a Labour man, right or wrong. Clever people see the bigger picture and don't follow blindly. Waterways, that's not a dig, just an observation.

[Ged]

I'm taking no share of responsibility. All i've done is lost out on pension and endowment funds whilst paying for a fund manager to manage badly.

[Broliv]

I lost my job due to redundancy, the rules state i'm not entitled to job seekers because i live with my girl friend (therefore she can supposedly support me and her on less than 15k). I'm not entitled to contributions based help as i didn't make enough payments to my national insurance while i was a university student. Therefore i'm entitled to nothing after paying taxes on my wages for the last 9 years.

My girl friend is not entitled to tax credits because both me and her are under 25, don't have kids, are not separated, she isn't preggers, she works full time the list continues.

So that's why i have a gripe with the government.

[Ged]

But become a fat cat millionaire banker who can't bank properly resulting in going bust then being bailed out by taxpayers money only to retire on an annual pension amounting to more than most earn in a year or become a part time MP on 64k + an annual 50k pension with an expenses sheet longer than an andrex bog roll and your laughin' kidder.

[Broliv]

heh. Yeah your right, i picked the wrong job.

[Robert Boulter]

I quite enjoy the political debates,everyone has an opinion,and theirs no right or wrong,if we could take all the good ideas and join them together the world would be a better place.Waterways is a lot like my dad,labour through and through,but times change,to think of labour as a socialist party nowadays is quite foolish.It is lead by middle class types playing at being good socialist(didnt Blair send his kids to private schools) and I'm not fooled in the least,also,I do base my opinions on facts.When was the last time an MP did anything his constituants wanted,they just pay lip service to the public but follow the party line for fear of being thrown out.Political parties rule the country in no democratic way whatsoever.I believe in honesty,truth and fairness,and I don't see a lot of that in the world today.Its quite surprising the lengths some people will go too,to get one step ahead of everyone else.Bull**** rules the world.

[pablo42]

So true Robert.

[petromax]

Ah well. That'll just be me feeling just a little bit guilty then...

I think I'll vote Conservative. If we everyone in Liverpool did, then at least we'd leave the Labour-loved Mancunians for dust!!...



http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2009/07/31/conservatives-lobby-for-upgrade-of-liverpool-s-cruise-liner-terminal-92534-24282565/

[pablo42]

Ah well. That'll just be me feeling just a little bit guilty then...

I think I'll vote Conservative. If we everyone in Liverpool did, then at least we'd leave the Labour-loved Mancunians for dust!!...



http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2009/07/31/conservatives-lobby-for-upgrade-of-liverpool-s-cruise-liner-terminal-92534-24282565/

Dunno whether I'd go that far. Summat needs changin'

[petromax]

Both cities' MPs are overwhelmingly Labour. Manchester has twice as many MPs as Liverpool. Manchester has a Labour Council; Liverpool has a seemingly entrenched Liberal Council.

NWDA are as political as anyone. They have to listen to whoever's in charge and we all know the money goes to where the votes are.

Yep, let's wise up. The Conservatives are in power next - let's vote for the party in power (for a change)!!!!

[Waterways]

Waterways is a lot like my dad,labour through and through,


Not at all. I am an ABC, Anyone But Conservative. The Tory Party has a naive Eton old school boy shadow cabinet. All old school chums - how cosy for them - all with silly those arrrcents. The sort of thing you see in third world countries. Mainly from the same school and unis and always have been. Only two unis matter to them, as the other 97 are dismissed as not being "the right type", so all the rest are capable of ruling. Trust the economy with them? Are you serious?

They support a ruling class, a non-meritocratic strata. A land owning aristocracy. Only a sycophant votes for them.

Do not tell yourself lies and believe them. Look at facts. I am not interested in way off opinions by amateurs of how the Credit Crunch happened, only facts.



but times change, to think of labour as a socialist party nowadays is quite foolish.


They got rid of hereditary peers and have put more money in the NHS than ever before - fact.



It is lead by middle class types playing at being good socialist(didnt Blair send his kids to private schools) and I'm not fooled in the least,


Since when has the Labour party been a party that cliams to only represent one class of people?



also,I do base my opinions on facts.


What you perceive as facts, or an opinion on ignorance of many facts.

<snip the rest>

[Waterways]

Yep, let's wise up. The Conservatives are in power next - let's vote for the party in power (for a change)!!!!

Not another sycophant. Who in their right mind puts someone in power who cares little of them and concern is primarily a ruling class strata. They are mainly all from the same school. We have 99 unis but they only consider two unis and two school. Going to the "right school" is what matters to them. Yes, the rest of us are all so thick.

The Tories in next time? Mmmm. In the last election the Labour vote moved to the Libs which let the Tories in further. Little of the vote went to the Tories. In the last by-election, the same. The Tories improved their vote little. Labour voters stayed away. In the Euro elections the Tories may little ground in vote share. Labour voters need reassuring and they will flock back and business as usual.

[Robert Boulter]

Why vote for any of the "big" parties,lets face it,most people in this country know very little about politics and thats why we go from one dodgy government to another.No matter what side you align yourself with,you will still end up with a predominantly privately educated lawyer who just wants to play "mother know best",tell us what we can and can't do,and ultimately fill their boots with our hard earned cash,whilst trying to prevent us from finding out how much they have"stolen".The only blessing is that we have a change every few years so the pendulum swing back and forth,with no party being in long enough to completely ruin the country(thank the lord for that).Politics is something everyone has a duty to learn about,with an open mind.Ignorance is the real problem,and lets face it,most people are.

[Waterways]

most people in this country know very little about politics


That is true. Lab and Lib are for social justice. The others mainly for themselves. They say wealth creation (money) will solve all. The trickle down effect. In history around the world it has solved nothing as those in power consolidate their power and the wealth stays mainly in their hands.



The only blessing is that we have a change every few years so the pendulum swing back and forth,

Yep. The Tories did undo many social laws and have introduced virtually none. Many have short memories of the Thatcher and Major years and misery inflicted on the British people. They should never be given another chance. The Libs should replace them as the No. 2 party.

[Robert Boulter]

Maybe,but I believe they are all as bad as each other,I don't support any of the parties,I'll vote for whoever offers the best deal,and then,as usual,find they fall short on their promises(EU treaty referendum etc).They are all guilty of this kind of thing and new labour are not like Old labour,Tony Blair was smart to change the way the labour party did things,it gave them 12 years of power,some of it good and some bad,but he's not called Teflon Tony for nothing and Mandleson is the same,untrustworthy and unable to answer a direct question with a straight answer.Im not picking on the labour party,its just that they are in charge at the moment,the others are the same.Socialism is a great ideology which I wholly support,but human nature prevents it becoming a reality.I think,maybe,socialists go into politics full of ideals and become corrupted by the system,the power and money is to much temptation for most to resist.During hard times,leaders never go without and suffer.The miners went through a terrible time in the 80's at the hands of Thatcher,but Scargill did alright.

[Waterways]

Maybe,but I believe they are all as bad as each other,

I keep hearing that ridiculous statement by many. Do some reading on political history over the past 120 years. Find out what the parties support and uphold. Look at their results. Look at who changed our society to the better over the past 120 years or so.

[Robert Boulter]

You seem to be living in the past,I'm looking at the future.past deeds are worthy of note but are now history,what happens now and in the future are what counts.Whilst talking of the past,I seem to recall a consevative defeating the nazis when labour failed abysmally,but that is also in the past.Whats happening now is our country being slowly given away to Europe for free,without any democratic vote whatsoever,so perhaps millions died for nothing.The European Union is as democratic as the nazi party(but at least they dont kill anyone). This seems to be an argument no-one can win,you hold your labour party ideals close to your heart and I applaud you for that,but remember who sent our troops to a pointless war to be killed for nothing ant a huge cost to our economy at a time of great hardship,while MP's of "all" parties fiddle their expenses the feather their nests.

[petromax]

So are the NWDA the enemy of Liverpool and biased towards Manchester?

Political ideology and principles aside; As long as there are more MPs in Manchester that belonging to the government in power, Manchester will attract more investment and more money from government.

You can't eat ideology or principles.

[Waterways]

You seem to be living in the past,I'm looking at the future.


The past gives a clear indication of the future. A track record.



Whilst talking of the past,I seem to recall a consevative defeating the nazis when labour failed abysmally,


You obviously know sweet FA of WW2. The government was a coalition - that means Lab and Tory. As to wonderful Churchill, a warlord useless in peace time, he was not PM at the beginning of the war and was voted out during the war. Atlee was PM on Japan's surrender.

<snip incoherent opinionated babble>

I gave the facts of the current regime on an earlier post. Read it again. Also get to know British political and social history over the past 120 years. Also its history over the past 13 years.

You come across as a very confused sycophant. ;)

[Waterways]

So are the NWDA the enemy of Liverpool and biased towards Manchester?

Political ideology and principles aside; As long as there are more MPs in Manchester that belonging to the government in power, Manchester will attract more investment and more money from government.

You can't eat ideology or principles.

Firstly, Manchester is a very well run city. That is nationally recognised. They have run rings around Liverpool for sure., when Liverpool has more going for it. I have dealt with Manchester Council, in a small way, and was very impressed with them.

Then, as they are same colour as the government, they would naturally have the ear of them more than say Lib-Dems. Than is not to say Whitehall is intentionally favouring Manchester, it is just that they know each other more. That is life.

If Liverpool had a Labour council over the past 10 years I think Liverpool would be a much better city. Nothing against Lib-Dems, but this bunch have been a washout - just plain incompetent at times. No visions no nothing, lots of in-fighting. God help us if the Tories were in power in the city.

[Robert Boulter]

No comments on the European treaty i see.Its easy to ignore the mistakes of a Government,no matter who they are,I was just making a point,they are all not that they seem to be.Churchill may only have been good leading Britain during war time,but he was still a Tory(peace in our time,a statement also made by a Tory,a big joke)I do know my history,and labour made many huge changes that improved the lives of millions of Britons and that is a fantastic achievement.I'm not disputing what you are saying,I've just become immune to the bull that comes from Westminster.To say that Lib-Dems should be the second party is hardly democratic,we have to accept what we get,more votes(or seats)means power and we don't always like what we get.History does tend to repeat itself,so why are we in Afghanistan?Another waste of resources and lives,we may be closer to another world war than we'd like to believe,the foreign policy of successive governments has caused us many problems,no mater who is in charge.The middle east is a volatile place at the best of times,we are better off leaving it alone.

[Waterways]

No comments on the European treaty

<snip disjointed opinionated babble> :) :)

[wsteve55]

I lost my job due to redundancy, the rules state i'm not entitled to job seekers because i live with my girl friend (therefore she can supposedly support me and her on less than 15k). I'm not entitled to contributions based help as i didn't make enough payments to my national insurance while i was a university student. Therefore i'm entitled to nothing after paying taxes on my wages for the last 9 years.

My girl friend is not entitled to tax credits because both me and her are under 25, don't have kids, are not separated, she isn't preggers, she works full time the list continues.

So that's why i have a gripe with the government.

I find it hard to believe that you are not entitled to some, type, of benefit,though fortunately,I'm well out of touch with the benefits system!(up to now,anyway!)

[Broliv]

I find it hard to believe that you are not entitled to some, type, of benefit,though fortunately,I'm well out of touch with the benefits system!(up to now,anyway!)

I'm entitled to the government paying my national insurance contributions (of which i've taken up their generous offer) so effectively i don't get any money to live on.

If i wasn't living with my girl friend but moved back in with my parents i'd be entitled to job seekers allowance. I've been told that if i did that i'd be put under investigation to ensure i wasn't living with my girlfriend but claiming i lived with my parents. (my parents combined wage is 3 times more than my girlfriend's). I don't see the sense in the rules.

I don't think it's fair, i've asked for more clarification but i'm not holding my breadth as to receiving any thing from them

[petromax]

I can remember being in a similar position. I had savings!! Clearly, a criminal offence!! I would have been better off not saving it and having a good time with it; then getting full dole from the govt.

You've clearly worked and paid your NI contributions. Why should you be treated with less respect or less well than someone who hasn't or is not able to get help from a partner. And it's not just about money.

[Robert Boulter]

It does seem absurd that you can't get any financial support even though you've made contributions.their are thousands of people out their who have paid nothing yet receive more money in benefits that my wife and i earn,and we've always worked,we get nothing even with 4 kids.If i were you,i would live with my parents and stay with my girlfriend for the maximum time allowed under the rules,until another job turns up of course.

[scouse smurf]

Maybe the days u're not allowed to stay with ur girlfriend, she stays with u at ur parents.

I assume u've been to the CAB and places like that.

Dunno if these links are of any use to u

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/benefits-tax-credits-minimum/
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/life/employment/redundancy___an_introduction/your_situation_after_redundancy.htm
http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1461

Hope u get things sorted asap :)

[wsteve55]

I would definitely seek advice, re' your situation,unemployed is unemployed!Have you been advised to claim social security benefit?(or whatever it's known as now!) That's the way it used to work,if you weren't entitled to unemployment benefit,you would have to make a claim to them,as obviously,you have to live on something! Phone your local d.s.s. office for info'!
Steve.

[Waterways]

Can he be an asylum seeker?

[Robert Boulter]

That would guarantee a new house and wads of cash:rolleyes:

[Charlie Pontoon]

I think the biggest cause for concern for Liverpool in the coming years is the proposed high speed rail network.

All the proposals I have seen talk about new lines connecting Birmingham with Manchester and Leeds, then northwards on to Newcastle and Scotland.

Liverpool is not being mentioned, even when a cross country link is discussed, this would start at Manchester and cross the pennines through to Leeds.

It surlely is the beginning of the end for any city when it gets cut off from the rest of the country.

[Waterways]

I think the biggest cause for concern for Liverpool in the coming years is the proposed high speed rail network.

All the proposals I have seen talk about new lines connecting Birmingham with Manchester and Leeds, then northwards on to Newcastle and Scotland.

Liverpool is not being mentioned, even when a cross country link is discussed, this would start at Manchester and cross the pennines through to Leeds.

It surlely is the beginning of the end for any city when it gets cut off from the rest of the country.

Good point. However it is just talk right now. Merseyside MPs should unite to ensure Liverpool is is not by-passed. Also to get high speed comms to Liverpool as well.

At least Liverpool-Manchester is being electrified.

[Broliv]

I think the problem Liverpool has is that it is too small a population base than compared to Merseyside. When you look at Manchester or rather greater Manchester they receive more (or its perceived) opportunities, investment, central government support.

From the 2005 statistics we have a greater population (477,600) compared to the city of Manchester (442,800). But when you look at greater manchester and the conglomeration of the various councils around that area you get a figure like 2,482,328. So because all their councils work together as one major area they get more.

Liverpool cannot fight against that, a greater Liverpool area could (1,480,234 includes Halton). By no means as big a population base but we'd have a lot more clout than we do at the moment.

We've already become a city region but everyone is still working for themselves.

[petromax]

Liverpool as one city is getting closer. I understand the borough leaders of Merseyside now meet at least as one 'board'. Manchester have had 'MIDAS' for some time - a single investment authority - but we are catching up. Our council is no less proactive than Manchester's; as a Liberal body, it just doesn't have the Labour government's ear.

Thankfully there are now fewer regeneration agencies in Liverpool and Liverpool Vision has taken the lead. It has produced a new economic prospectus for the whole region and is starting to commission 'cross-border' projects, particularly with Sefton. The new 'brand' is already 'Liverpool', neither Greater Liverpool nor Merseyside

'Merseyside' needs to be formally dropped (ie renamed 'Liverpool' under local government acts. Merseyside goes too well with depression and deprivation. It reminds people of the 80s, hubcaps and 'Militant' - and it rhymes with slide!

[Howie]

Conservative shadow minister Chris Grayling hits out at North West Development Agency NWDA
Sep 18 2009
by David Bartlett, Liverpool Daily Post

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/article/20031701/2009/09/18/12776234.jpeg

SHADOW Minister for Merseyside Chris Grayling last night attacked the Northwest Development Agency, claiming it often made ?cack-handed? decisions.

He said it was a ?barking? decision by the NWDA to support the building of a computer games centre in Salford, as Liverpool was the leader in this field.

He told business leaders that he would like to see the regional development agencies replaced with local economic partnerships that could make better decisions.

Mr Grayling, who is also shadow Home Secretary, said he believes the Tories could work well with a Labour council in Liverpool.

He said both sides had grown up since the Conservatives clashed with Liverpool Council in the 1980s and 90s.

Liverpool Council is currently controlled by the Liberal Democrats, but could fall into the hands of Labour after May?s local elections as the ruling party currently has a majority of one seat.

The Conservatives, meanwhile, are widely expected to win the next general election. Mr Grayling also said he was unapologetic about comparing Speke with the crime-ridden USA murder capital Baltimore, as depicted in cult TV show, The Wire.

Last night, NWDA chief executive Steve Broomhead said no decision had yet been made about a gaming centre of excellence in Salford and that it was just speculation.

?As far as we are concerned it is business as usual, we are working hard to get this region back into economic growth and we do seem to be making a contribution.?

Mr Grayling told business leaders how the NWDA needed to be replaced with local economic partnerships.

?I think it was barking to want to put the computer centre of excellence in Salford and not Liverpool.

?It should be Liverpool because all the expertise is here.

?Who on earth paid the consultants to come up with that one??

He also said decisions were often made in a ?cack-handed? way by the development agency. He went on to say the Conservatives could work with a Labour council and praised Labour leader Cllr Joe Anderson.

?I like Joe, I talk to him from time to time. He?s a decent guy. We don?t agree on everything, but it does not mean we can?t work together in the interests of Merseyside.

?I do not see why we can?t have a perfectly constructive relationship with a Labour council in Liverpool.

In relation to The Wire, he said: ?It is factually the case that there are a number of communities around the country which have levels of crime that are at the top of the league tables, and there?s a clear pattern that sees crime at its worst in the poorest areas.?

Source: Liverpool Daily Post (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2009/09/18/conservative-shadow-minister-chris-grayling-hits-out-at-north-west-development-agency-nwda-92534-24720812/)

[petromax]

You have to say Manchester has done very well out of having a council of the same colour as the government.

The NWDA is the head agency for regeneration in the region. If you read the NWDA recently published strategy document (as Chris Grayling clearly has) you can see that their plans for Manchester are for it to be a quote: 'world class city' and for Liverpool to be supplementary (only) to Manchester's leadership in the region. Does anyone here want this?

In case anyone has any doubt as to the bias of the NWDA, the chairman is Sir Richard Reese, also leader of Manchester city council. QED!

On this basis alone, I for one would be happy to see the back of the NWDA and decisions about Liverpool made in Liverpool.

[Waterways]

You have to say Manchester has done very well out of having a council of the same colour as the government.

The NWDA is the head agency for regeneration in the region. If you read the NWDA recently published strategy document (as Chris Grayling clearly has) you can see that their plans for Manchester are for it to be a quote: 'world class city' and for Liverpool to be supplementary (only) to Manchester's leadership in the region. Does anyone here want this?

In case anyone has any doubt as to the bias of the NWDA, the chairman is Sir Richard Reese, also leader of Manchester city council. QED!

On this basis alone, I for one would be happy to see the back of the NWDA and decisions about Liverpool made in Liverpool.

Manchester did well by being well organised. Being the same political colour helps by the fact you know many of the government people.

The Liverpool Council and MPs should have shouted from the heaven about the NWDA. If they did the situation would be different. The blame is mainly in Liverpool.

HSBC projected that Liverpool would be one of 5 UK super-cities. Liverpool can use that as leverage for any bias towards Manchester. At this rate Liverpool will end up a village.

The local politicos should ignore the NWDA.

Liverpool does not have much of a clue to project the city. The CofC has been forgotten, now they have to produce tangible results. Why aren't they all screaming for a Merseyrail/Manchester/London line station at the airport? The likes of Manchester laughs at Liverpool when they see the council turn down the world-class Brunswick Quay Tower. NO provincial city would be so crass as to do such a thing.

That Tory goon was right that a Labour Council would be better, which he seems to be implying. He is from Bucks and represents Epsom in Surrey. What is he after? Manchester is a great success and most of the country thinks so. He is trying to discredit Manchester because they are Labour and a Labour success story? Me thinks so. No Tory lauds Liverpool unless there is an ulterior motive.

BTW, the Tories are not definitely going to get in next time. A long way to go until the election. The upturn is here and the government is getting world-wide credit for putting in the rescue plan.

[petromax]

I think the Conservatives will get in next time.

There is a well-orchestrated media campaign plus no government has EVER regained power from such a poor position in the polls and no government has EVER retained power after going the full term (and there's only 9 months to go). Even if we are out of the dwang by next June, everyone but the government will take the credit. More like there will be an election in March - as near to the end as makes no difference.

As to city projection - if you haven't the new business prospectus for the city produced by Liverpool Vision, have a look at:



Unfortunately our local council can't ignore the NWDA as their control (what's left of) the public purse strings, so it's up to more Euro finance (but we've had so much already) or the private sector, ie. the banks - good luck!

No doubt the 'tory goon' has been given a job to do ie. get more votes in Liverpool, but there's nothing wrong with that if he makes a lot of sense about advancing the city.

Everyone looks after their own and we should learn from Manchester and have the same council as the government (just look at what Harold Wilson did for Huyton) but even Chris Grayling accepted that that wasn't going to happen any time soon in Liverpool.

The city would do as well to make a friend of this guy. He's going to be in government; he has a role to look after Merseyside and as Home Secretary he will be close to the Prime Minister.

[petromax]

Link referred to above:

http://www.liverpoolvision.co.uk/keydocs/PROSPECTUS.pdf

[Waterways]

I think the Conservatives will get in next time.


That is an opinion I would not be too sure of.



There is a well-orchestrated media campaign plus no government has EVER regained power from such a poor position in the polls


Major did. The worst ever world financial crash we have not experienced either. I would rather Gordon is in charge as they do know how to run the economy. Please do not come back and say Gordon was responsible for a USA created crash.



As to city projection - if you haven't the new business prospectus for the city produced by Liverpool Vision, have a look at:



Unfortunately our local council can't ignore the NWDA as their control (what's left of) the public purse strings, so it's up to more Euro finance (but we've had so much already) or the private sector, ie. the banks - good luck!

No doubt the 'tory goon' has been given a job to do ie. get more votes in Liverpool, but there's nothing wrong with that if he makes a lot of sense about advancing the city.


I sense an ulterior motive. They care only about the south. Draw a line from Bristol to the Wash. If those below vote for you then you are in. That is Tory strategy. We do not matter, we were written off years ago by them. Voting Tory in Liverpool is giving them the bullets to shoot you with. Then there is the Eton/Harrow/Oxbridge ruling class garbage about the party - most of the shadow cabinet went to Eton (an old school buddies place). The sort of thing seen in banana republics.



The city would do as well to make a friend of this guy. He's going to be in government;


In your opinion. I differ, as the record of this government is excellent.



he has a role to look after Merseyside and as Home Secretary he will be close to the Prime Minister.

If the Tories get in we will get the scraps as usual. You go on about the council having to be the same colour as Westminster. I don't go along with that. The council and MPs should have united to push Liverpool. They never. The problem was in Liverpool, not Manchester.

Liverpool can highlight the bias of the NWDA and tell Westminster they will ignore it, shouting loud as they do so. No non-Tory government likes a rebellious Liverpool, so they may do something.

[petromax]

You misunderstand. I'm not all together happy with the Conservatives getting in - it's just that they will, and we should make the best of it instead of standing on principle (and standing alone and eating scraps).

I agree that Gordon Brown would make much the better Chancellor but not PM. I say he is also way better than 'lightweight' Cameron would be at running the country; but he is demonstrably cr*p at running a political party that can fight off the opposition ie., he is just not a good Prime Minister.

The figures are worse than were Major's and nobody else from the Labour Party is going to take Brown's place just now; just in time for a good kicking at a General Election. How many volunteers are there? - about none I think. He missed his chance three months after he got in - that's when he should have called an election but ever the ditherer...

So we should grow up, buddy up and be clever; make a positive out of a negative rather than take our ball home 'cos we don't like the referee.

[Waterways]

NWDA plans are to have Manchester airport as the North West regions airport and do all to promote it. It is in the bottom right hand corner of the North West region, unlike Liverpool which is more central. Manchester airport station has more long distance routes than Liverpool's Lime St. Outside of the North West Liverpool only has FOUR long distance routes. A disgrace. Manchester airport trains are empty most of the time. Liverpool has no direct rail link with adjacent North Wales. Something the Welsh want rectified.

Passenger figures for Liverpool & Manchester airports:


Dec 2009 stats L'pool 358,000, Man 1,086,000. (approx ratio 1:3 to MAN)
Dec 2004 stats L'pool 244,000. Man 1,330,000. (approx ratio 1:5.5 to MAN)
Dec 1999 stats L'pool 124,000. Man 938,000. (approx ratio 1:7.5 to MAN)

It is closing all the time. In 10 years from 7 to 1 to 3 to 1. Matters have changed dramatically. This indicates the need for a cheap Merseyrail airport extension from Halewood station across fields to the airport, with only one bridge constructed. Trains running into the airport from Manchester and Warrington will close that passenger gap. I think it will increase business in both airports and not steal from Manchester. The airport station is now essential for the future of the city. It will provide growth and jobs. The terminal is now 25 years old. A new terminal is in order with a station under the terminal, as in Manchester and Gatwick.

If the airport station is built, trains from the Wirral can access the airport "directly" using the stock interchange tunnel from James St to Central. The old 1800s original tunnel is still there and used for shunting. That means a train from West Kirkby, or any Merseyrail Wirral terminal, even Chester, can go directly to the airport.

Wrexham and Chester were on about getting the Halton Curve uprated to get direct trains from North Wales to the airport via Runcorn - uprating the curve is a relatively cheap undertaking - the curve is there and used, it just needs uprating. Again, a great boost the local economy. The line could also continue to Lime St.

This overt bias to Manchester, which despite vast investment, is not really working as lowly Liverpool's John Lennon, without a direct rail station, has come right up with people preferring its more central location over Manchester. We need NWDA funds to assist in a Merseyrail airport station extension. This will assist in promoting Wirral and Liverpool Waters.