Welsh community

[lindylou]

What about the Welsh community ?

The Welsh built many of our houses and had a notable influence on our city.
There are still quite a few Welsh churches scattered around various districts.

[Wormella]

Um, Hi! There is a Welsh community, very small group (http://www.liverpool-welsh.com/)

this is a discussion that raises it's head often in our family. The tiny remaining Welsh community in Liverpool appears to be a direct corrolation to the hords of people returning to Wales with Hiraeth (Belonging or home sickness)

There doesn't seem to be much in the way of youth movement, not in the Universities or within the few remaining chapels.

[lindylou]

I don't think the Welsh influence in Liverpool gets much attention.
The focus has always been on Irish ancestry, maybe because the Irish were here in greater numbers perhaps. The Welsh did such a lot of building and many streets were built entirely by them. I think their presence in L'pool tends to get overlooked at times.

[Wormella]

It doesn't do a lot to help itself. It's never gone out of it's way to promote the language or culture outside of Wales (it has a hard enough job inside of Wales I suppose)

You never see Welsh themed pubs or Welsh products having a large scale advertising campaign (this recent high profie Magners Cider) adverts for instance.

It has a lot of culture, and a massive diaspora to promote as well. It's one of the reasons it's such a shame some stuffy memebers of the Welsh Communiy faught so hard against having the 2007 Eisterfod in Liverpool, insted forcing it of Mold, Flintshire, a horribly cash strapped council.

[Kev]

Welsh Chapel, Garston:

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d62/ijob/Garston/cea63095.jpg

Thanks for creating this thread :PDT_Piratz_26: Fantastic info Wormella :celb (6)::celb (23):

[lindylou]

I think you are right Wormella. The Welsh community always kept quietly to themselves and there never has been any promotion of their culture.

[Max]

Wales is the home of King Calzaghe.:PDT_Aliboronz_24:

[Kev]

It's one of the reasons it's such a shame some stuffy memebers of the Welsh Communiy faught so hard against having the 2007 Eisterfod in Liverpool, insted forcing it of Mold, Flintshire, a horribly cash strapped council.

I think it was refered to as the 'Scousteddfod' at one point.

Anyways....

In 1813, one in ten people living in Liverpool was of Welsh origin, with many only able to speak Welsh.

[Wormella]

Welsh Chapel, Garston:

Thanks for creating this thread :PDT_Piratz_26: Fantastic info Wormella :celb (6)::celb (23):

One of these days I might get orginised enough to make it to a service - it's just getting to the other side of town on a Sunday morning when I'm not in work that makes it a bit tricky.:cha (5):

[deb1]

HI
I also would like to know why wales is not mentioned much? a lot of the streets are welsh names, bala street, bala is 40 min away from me,conway st,hoywell st, rhyl st.
Im sure there are others as well but at the moment i am having a relapse with my ms so not thinkin too staight.
Loads of people from liverpool come here on holiday my father in law is a scouser all his family still live in bootle, my kids think scousers are great well the ones they have met.
So yes Wales should get mentioned more.
If no one liked it here why come on holiday here?
take care
love deb1 proud welsh girl

[lindylou]

... and there's Powis st, Kinmel st, Gwydir st, Treborth. Maybe some more I've forgotten. :)

[Gnomie]

there is a bit of info here on the Scottie press site...


http://www.scottiepress.org.uk/main.htm


I know that one part of Vauxhall named the streets in a certain way so that the first letters of each street would spell out names. they where built by Welsh workmen and looking at the map of the streets side by side, the first letter of each one would spell out Owens or Jones etc. I will look through my books for it and post it up.

[Gnomie]

OOPS sorry

go to the link above. when in choose SEARCH from the left hand column.

Then type in WELSH STREET NAMES. a few threads come up..

Choose the first thread, most info there.

[Gnomie]

and this

http://www.walesunited.com













:)

[lindylou]

Cheers Gnomie :)

[lindylou]

I've found the Welsh streets thread.

Very interesting.

The Scottie Press web-site is great. I've looked into it a few times a while ago and each time I find something else new. :celb (23):

Fascinating stuff in there.

I've bookmarked it to read more in detail later.

[Waterways]

there is a bit of info here on the Scottie press site...

http://www.scottiepress.org.uk/main.htm

I know that one part of Vauxhall named the streets in a certain way so that the first letters of each street would spell out names. they where built by Welsh workmen and looking at the map of the streets side by side, the first letter of each one would spell out Owens or Jones etc. I will look through my books for it and post it up.

The terraced House along Goodison Rd opposite Goodison Park spell out Ownes and Hargreaves, the builders.

Masses of Toxteth were built by the Welsh, and hence the Welsh Streets with Welsh names. About 1/3 of all churches in Toxteth was a Welsh church.

Far more Welsh settled in Liverpool than Irish – hence the highly Welsh influences in the Liverpool accent. The Irish make noises where they go and, unlike the Welsh.

Outsiders think Liverpool is an Irish city on the English mainland for some reason. The Irish did have an influence but far from the most populous and most influential.

[Gnomie]

Jeeeeeeeeshus. me lot is all Irish

I agree waterways, not enough to mention the Welsh in this city

I think the Welsh and Irish deserve a mention in the city, but where would it stop if we started mentioning everyone? theres way too many people settled here, the list would line the mersey:eek:


I love these threads, great info being posted and so interesting learning the cultures. long may we keep discussing it :gossip:

[lindylou]

Yes Gnomie, I love learning about all the different cultures and people who settled here.

I heard the other day, someone talking about the sizable Swedish community
we have here. I know we have a Scandinavian church.

I have relatives in Maghull, and many of their neighbours are Polish. Three generations. The Poles settled during the war years and have brought up their families in Maghull.

[Gnomie]

My friends grand parents are Spanish and came here in the 1930`s

Lots of Polish here in vicyorian times as well as a big Italian community

[bobbymac]

Me granny, on me dad's side was Welsh. Named Jones, so she had to be. lol. Me dads side was Scottisg, they were ships carpenters, settled on (I think, Epy St. By Scotty rd. )It's not there now. Mothere's side were 'black Irish, from Armada times. Wott a bloody mix.:Colorz_Grey_PDT_16:

[J.C.S. III]

I think it was refered to as the 'Scousteddfod' at one point.

Anyways....

In 1813, one in ten people living in Liverpool was of Welsh origin, with many only able to speak Welsh.


Years ago, definitely up to the sixties, every Thursday was Welsh day. Which was the day people from Wales came over to Liverpool (via public transport usually) to spend the day, probably mainly shopping. T.J.Hughes and Owen Owens both two Welsh representations on the high street. I am not sure, but I think that Lewis' is also a Welsh company. The Welsh connection may have been more obvious in Liverpool previously, but with people owning their own cars and having more choice of shopping destinations, the tradition of Welsh day and other elements of the connection seem to have died off.

Many people in Liverpool were evacuated to Wales. My Nan who was pregnant during WW2 and was living in the Pighue Lane area was sent to Prestatyn with my Aunty, and my Mum ended up being born there. So the Welsh have come in useful for us Scousers through the years! There are so many people who have Welsh relations and connections with Wales that it won't be forgotten, but is a shame when traditions, such as, Welsh day are lost.

[J.C.S. III]

Yes Gnomie, I love learning about all the different cultures and people who settled here.

I heard the other day, someone talking about the sizable Swedish community
we have here. I know we have a Scandinavian church.

I have relatives in Maghull, and many of their neighbours are Polish. Three generations. The Poles settled during the war years and have brought up their families in Maghull.


Yes, a lot of temporary housing was built for many, including The Polish. During the war people were evacuated out to Maghull, including refugees. Which seems really odd to me coming from Maghull, it is more built up now than back then, but seems so close to Bootle/Liverpool. Lots of people stayed to live here, but yes, the Polish presence that remained has been noted more than any other nationality. I am not sure if some of the properties were built with housing the Polish in mind.

I noticed that there is also a Polish food store on Picton Road, may be there is a Polish community in that area???

[Waterways]

I noticed that there is also a Polish food store on Picton Road, may be there is a Polish community in that area???

Polish club/church in Alexandra Drive, off Ullet Rd L17. Spent many a night there.

[Waterways]

Yes Gnomie, I love learning about all the different cultures and people who settled here.

I heard the other day, someone talking about the sizable Swedish community
we have here. I know we have a Scandinavian church.


A few of my friends have some Swedish in them. We found out looking though the records, one grt, grt or othet granddad married a Miss Lund (Norweigian name, as in Elsa Lund in Casablanca).

The Scandinavian connection is greatly understated in Liverpool. My Dad said they were called Scanweigians.

[Norm NZ]

Just thought i'd a a little light hearted aspect to this discussion! Both my wife and I have Welsh ancestry, and some years ago I decided to try and 'link them to my present family!! " What a job that turned out to be"!! with names such as, Jones, Hughes, Davies, and Roberts, I found I was constantly being confused and sidetracked to just about every town, village, or district in both Wales, and England!!!:PDT_Aliboronz_11: In the end I had to give it up! so I don't recomend the exercise to anyone!!

Incidently, I learned that most of my Welsh ancesters moved (over a nomber of years) from North Wales to the Wirral area, then on to Garston, most probably a migration caused by the need to search for work. Probably the docks and it's related industries in Garston, Birkenhead and Liverpool provided this. "Cymru am Byth" and regards to all.:celb (23):

[lindylou]

A few of my friends whas some Swedish in them. We found out looking though the records, one grt, grt or othet granddad married a Miss Lund (Norweigian name, as in Elsa Lund in Casblanca).

The Scandinavian connection is greatly understated in Liverpool. My Dad said they were called Scanweigians.

hmmm, that's interesting. I didn't know Lund was a Norwegian name. The headmaster of Anfield jnr school is Mr Lund. Perhaps he's of Norwegian stock.

Come to think of it LUND does sound Scandinavian.

[FKoE]

Scandiwegian Naval The general maritime slang name for a man or ship from Norway, Sweden or Denmark. Sometimes "Scowegian" or "Scandihoovian".

Sco-wegian ?, Whys that ?




http://www.britishempire.co.uk/glossary/s.htm


:)

[Waterways]

hmmm, that's interesting. I didn't know Lund was a Norwegian name. The headmaster of Anfield jnr school is Mr Lund. Perhaps he's of Norwegian stock.

We had a few named Lundstrum around the area. Many Anglicised their names. A local family was named Campos. The “s” was put on to hide the Spanish origins.

Names ending in “berg”, would have the g turned to a “t”. So many names with “bert” at the end may have been originally German or Scandinavian. Many had the “berg” removed. Greenberg became Green. Same with “stein”. Burnstein became Burns, or Bernstein Became Berns. Etc, etc.

[FKoE]

Reminds me of that Iceberg joke .........

[Norm NZ]

Reminds me of that Iceberg joke .........
D'you mean the one about the announcement at Loyd's of the tragic loss of the Titanic! ? and a polar bear at the back asks:'"Any news of the Iceberg"? (Apologies to Tom O'Conner!)

[FKoE]

D'you mean the one about the announcement at Loyd's of the tragic loss of the Titanic! ? and a polar bear at the back asks:'"Any news of the Iceberg"? (Apologies to Tom O'Conner!)

Close Normie!!.....but it was the one about the Seacombe ferryman, and the ultra-right winger.........

Oh!, and the Titanic and an Iceberg :D

[Scousemouse]

Some time in the distant past, I posted an edited version of this story (with the author's permission) but as I can no longer find it on my drive, perhaps you would like to read the original...

www.anglesey (http://www.anglesey.info/LlwydiarthFawr.htm)

[Kev]

THE importance of Liverpool's Welsh heritage will be celebrated at a new exhibition launched today.

The city's Irish links are well-documented, but the Welsh also came to Liverpool in their thousands.

The Eloquent Suitcase exhibition is the result of a year-long initiative by Liverpool Community Spirit whose members have interviewed almost 100 people either with Welsh roots, or those who live in the city's Welsh streets.

Their stories are told through a new book, Welsh Roots/Welsh Routes, and the exhibition produced in partnership with Welsh photo-grapher and designer Phil Cope and composer Andrew Griffiths.

It was being launched in the 08 Shop in Whitechapel today.

Matthew Thompson, co-ordinator of Liverpool Community Spirit, said: "It provides powerful inspiration to all who reallycare about the future of our city's community roots."

The Welsh have been part of the history and development of Liverpool for centuries, and at one stage it was called the Capital of North Wales. Many came to the city to work in the docks.

The Welsh Presbyterian church in Toxteth, opened in 1868, reflected the success of the 19th century Welsh community and was known as the Welsh cathedral.

At the start of the last century Liverpool, Bootle and Crosby had a larger Welsh speaking presence than Cardiff, Wrexham or Newport and some of the largest Welsh non conformist chapels anywhere in the UK.

Many Welsh people lived in the Everton and Toxteth areas in what have been dubbed the 'Welsh Streets'.

Patagonian girl learned English as newly-wed

ELAN Jones only learned to speak English as a newly-wed in Liverpool.

The grandmother has lived in the city for 50 years with husband Richard.

But her roots lie neither in Liverpool nor in Wales, but in South America.

Mrs Jones's great-grandfather was one of the earliest Welsh settlers in the Patagonia region of southern Argentina.

He preceded even the SS Mimosa, which in 1865 sailed from Liverpool with more than 150 Welsh migrants bound for a new life in Latin America.

They helped establish a Welsh settlement which has survived to this day.

Former nurse Mrs Jones, 80, from Mossley Hill, said: "People wanted their independence and a place for the Welsh.

"I was born in Tirhalen, which means salty land. We had a farm with cattle, and alfalfa grass which grew 3ft tall. My first language is Welsh and my second Spanish."

Mrs Jones was working as a nurse in Buenos Aires when she had the chance to travel to Wales half-a-century ago.

There she met her future husband and they have lived in Liverpool since October 1956.

She said: "I've been back to Argentina a few times and it's changed like anywhere else.

"We speak Welsh at home here - you don't forget your Welsh heritage."

[FKoE]

I can smell burning holiday homes!! :D

[Scousemouse]

I can smell burning holiday homes!! :D
Don't start that one again! They'll be piddling in our reservoirs again. Oops, sorry Dai, your reservoirs.
But then again, Dai won't be reading this — he can't read English! :rolleyes:

[Gnomie]

do all 'ch 'n benffol ffola

[FKoE]

Erm!!...Nos Da Gnomie :D

[Scousemouse]

do all 'ch 'n benffol ffola
Yer wha', la? ...'ang on I'll ask our dog to take a gander at it, he's a Welsh Border Collie... and they were all Welsh speakers down on the farm, he might know!

er, Yakky Dar. :)

[Kev]

LIVERPOOL'S Welsh community was out in force to celebrate its heritage at the Lord Mayor's annual Welsh Civic Service. more (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/liverpoolecho/news/echonews/tm_headline=city%2Ds-welsh-community-united-in-song-and-praise%26method=full%26objectid=18232469%26siteid= 50061-name_page.html)

[john]

I can smell burning holiday homes!! :D

:Colorz_Grey_PDT_24: Naughty FKoE

[marky]

There was also Llanwrst street, Dingle. A few Welsh chapels/churches are mentioned at Toxteth.net e.g.
http://www.toxteth.net/places/liverpool/churches/st%20deniols.htm

[Pmac]

Anyone interested in putting a football team in to represent Wales in the Inner City World Cup taking place in Liverpool in June please send me a PM.Its a big Football festival that we usually do in Regents Park but its coming to Liverpool and we would like all the different cultures and communities to be represented so please get in touch if you are interested and I will forward the full details.

[Ged]

The hub of the Welsh Community in Liverpool was St. Paul's Square off Old Hall street. Many resided around Pall Mall and many Welsh chapels were built.

Over the bridge (as it's known locally) around Athol street there were Barmouth, Menai streets to name but a few. The Goodison road streets begin with Oxton and go right up to near Arnot st school and spell out Owen and William elias owen (not owen hargreaves as Waterways said - he actually plays for England - (badly)

The Welsh streets of Dingle are well documented too of course.

[lindylou]

There are some Welsh named streets in Anfield .. can't think of all of them off the top of my head, but there is Corwyn, Berwyn, Bala, that spring to mind.

[Silverbuttons]

My family are Welsh.

My Nain before she was drafted into the Land Army worked in TJs and sang at night for the troops.

Her Mum and Dad moved to Birkenhead where there used to be quite a large Welsh speaking community.

Don't forget the Welsh didn't just build half the city but were also teachers and doctors.

Cymru am Byth!

Nos da!

[lindylou]

Yes, there were many Welsh teachers and doctors .. many years ago our local GP was Welsh.

[lindylou]

There are some Welsh named streets in Anfield .. can't think of all of them off the top of my head, but there is Corwyn, Berwyn, Bala, that spring to mind.


Thought of some others .. Conwy drive, Gwent way, Cardigan way, (off Whitefield rd area ).

[taffy]

My family are Welsh.

My Nain before she was drafted into the Land Army worked in TJs and sang at night for the troops.

Cymru am Byth!

Nos da!

T J Hughes and Owen Owen department stores were of course founded by Welshmen. Much of the source of finance for the Welsh Builders in Liverpool came from the Bank of North and South Wales. This was established 1836 and headquartered in Castle St Liverpool. This was taken over by the Midland Bank (now HSBC) in the early years of the 20th C.

[SteH]

There are some Welsh named streets in Anfield .. can't think of all of them off the top of my head, but there is Corwyn, Berwyn, Bala, that spring to mind.

Other ones in Anfield include Skerries Road, Vrynwy St, Valley Road and Dinorwic Road. There was a Welsh builder in lte Victorian times called John Jones who was named Drinkwater, because he refused to undertake the custom of buying his workers a pint of beer when the first house of a terrace was completed.

[lindylou]

There used to be a Welsh church in Douglas rd, Anfield (opposite the juniour school).
The church was demolished a long time ago - probably early 70s at a rough guess.

[Pmac]

All very good,but there doesnt seem to be any Welsh community in Liverpool anymore.What happened to them all,did they all go back to Wales?

[Steven]

We've got the Welsh streets near to where I live and a lot of Welsh people still live there. Mind you, they are in the process of being knocked down at the moment.

[taffy]

All very good,but there doesnt seem to be any Welsh community in Liverpool anymore.What happened to them all,did they all go back to Wales?

They are still in Liverpool. They integrated and generally in my experience don't make a big thing of their ancestry. Check the Liverpool phone book for Welsh surnames, there's plenty there. However are still a few Welsh chapels still operating in the Liverpool area. The large one one in Heathfield rd , Wavertree comes to mind

[PhilipG]

The Welsh didn't just build Welsh named streets.
In fact, it's probably correct to say that they built most of Liverpool's terraced streets from the second half of the 19th century onwards.

Earlier on in this thread somebody wondered if Lewis's was a Welsh firm.
Until recently, under Owen Owen control it was, but it was originally founded by a Jew called Levy.

[lindylou]

Yes, that's right. Loads of streets in Anfield were built by the Welsh.
Wolverton st where I grew up was welsh built if I'm not mistaken.

[SteH]

Anyone wishing to look more into the Welsh builders may wish to try and get a copy of The Welsh Builder On Merseyside (http://www.liverpool.gov.uk/talis/frame.htm)by JR Jones.

[taffy]

Anyone wishing to look more into the Welsh builders may wish to try and get a copy of The Welsh Builder On Merseyside (http://www.liverpool.gov.uk/talis/frame.htm)by JR Jones.

Also there's an interesting chapter in the book " Building the Industrial City" edited by Martin Doughty. Published by Leicester University Press 1986

[taffy]

Church built in 1920s but due for demolition and replacement with a smaller version I understand. Minister: Prof. Dr. D Ben Rees. For more info on the Liverpool Welsh, see

http://www.liverpool-welsh.com/heritage.htm

[PhilipG]

Church built in 1920s but due for demolition and replacement with a smaller version I understand. Minister: Prof. Dr. D Ben Rees. For more info on the Liverpool Welsh, see

http://www.liverpool-welsh.com/heritage.htm

The photo is of the one in Heathfield Road/Smithdown Place, which all the tourists think is Penny Lane.
The congregation came here about 1924 from a chapel in Webster Road.
The Webster Road chapel was then converted into a cinema called the Cameo.
And the rest, as they say, is history.

[taffy]

All very good,but there doesnt seem to be any Welsh community in Liverpool anymore.What happened to them all,did they all go back to Wales?

For those who have an interest, Prof D Ben Rees, Minister at the Presbyterian Church of Wales, Heathfield Rd, Wavertree has written two excellent books:

The Welsh of Merseyside Vols 1 and 2, published by Modern Welsh Publications of Allerton, Liverpool. Vol 1 published 1997, vol 2 in 2001.

Vol 1 concentrates on 19th C and Vol 2 on the 20th C. The books highlight aspects of the contributions made by various distinguished Welsh people to life on Merseyside and the devlopment of Liverpool.

[Jericho]

Thanks. Here's the website.

http://www.welshpublications.co.uk/

[Kev]

The Welsh had for long come to Merseyside to trade. By the late 18th century permission was given for some church services to be held in Welsh and in 1840 the Eistedfodd was held in Liverpool because there were so many Welsh people living there.

One particular Welshman will be remembered by any Liveprudlian over the age of 25. His name was Owen and his store, Owen & Owens stood in the city centre for many years.

Many of the houses that were built in the hose building boom of the nineteenth century were constructed by Welshmen. Two such builders left their mark on Liverpool in an unusual way. The streets from Spellow Lane in Walton going northwards are Oxton, Winslow, Eton, Neston, Andrew, Nimrod, Dane, Wilburn Ismay, Lind, Lowell, Index, Arnot, Makin, Olney, Weldon, Euston, Nixon. When the first letters of each street are put together they read Owen and William Owen, the names of the two Welsh brothers who built the houses there.

Source: OUR CITY OUR HERITAGE TEACHERS’ NOTES

[taffy]

The Welsh had for long come to Merseyside to trade. By the late 18th century permission was given for some church services to be held in Welsh and in 1840 the Eistedfodd was held in Liverpool because there were so many Welsh people living there.

One particular Welshman will be remembered by any Liveprudlian over the age of 25. His name was Owen and his store, Owen & Owens stood in the city centre for many years.

Source: OUR CITY OUR HERITAGE TEACHERS’ NOTES

The firm has just gone into liquidation and owned Lewis's on Ranelagh St. Prior to the Parker St site in central Liverpool, they operated from London Rd on a site sold by Owen Owens to T J Hughes.

[Jericho]

I came back on Sunday from spending a few days in Gwynedd. What I was struck by was the amount of times Liverpool is mentioned on tombstones in remote burial grounds way off the beaten track. Lots of places have a pub called the Liverpool Arms, too. It left me with a strong sense of historical interconnectedness between North Wales and Liverpool that sadly seems to be waning.

For old time's sake I also went to Rhyl.:eek: Coming in from Abergele the rusting and deserted fairground was a harbinger of what was to come. The town centre seemed so run down and stuck in another era. On the way back we drove onto Talacre beach and walked past the lighthouse. The weather was sh*te but the atmosphere was fantastic.

[Ged]

I love Rhyl, stayed many a time in b&b's, the Robin Hood and Lyons caravan sites (they're now combined) - they're a bit more Prestatyn though. I think Morecambes gone down the nick since the Frontierland is no more. Rhyl is a good base for visiting Conway, Bets y coed, Llandudno etc too. You still hear the scouse accent there more often than not.

[christy]

[QUOTE=Jericho;65449]I came back on Sunday from spending a few days in Gwynedd. What I was struck by was the amount of times Liverpool is mentioned on tombstones in remote burial grounds way off the beaten track. Lots of places have a pub called the Liverpool Arms, too. It left me with a strong sense of historical interconnectedness between North Wales and Liverpool that sadly seems to be waning.

QUOTE]
One connection which lasted was the shops and the weekly coach trips people from north wales used to make (think it was tuesday of evry other week????????) to Liverpool. Unfortunbately as Liverpool went downhill in the 70's/80's these stopped or became less frequent and Chester and to some extent, Manc took the trade.

This is a huge potential market for Liverpool and the city should make a big effort to publicise the new shopping developments to the North Welsh over the next few years and get the people back using their closest big city. It is a fact that they still come for the theatre and football. Maybe the electrification of the line from Bidston to Wrexham will help. You can get a train directly from LLandudno, through Abergele, Rhyl, Flint, Conaughs(sp?) Quay etc to Manc but not here - sad......

[taffy]

[QUOTE=Jericho;65449]I came back on Sunday from spending a few days in Gwynedd. What I was struck by was the amount of times Liverpool is mentioned on tombstones in remote burial grounds way off the beaten track. Lots of places have a pub called the Liverpool Arms, too. It left me with a strong sense of historical interconnectedness between North Wales and Liverpool that sadly seems to be waning.

QUOTE]
One connection which lasted was the shops and the weekly coach trips people from north wales used to make (think it was tuesday of evry other week????????) to Liverpool. Unfortunbately as Liverpool went downhill in the 70's/80's these stopped or became less frequent and Chester and to some extent, Manc took the trade.

This is a huge potential market for Liverpool and the city should make a big effort to publicise the new shopping developments to the North Welsh over the next few years and get the people back using their closest big city. It is a fact that they still come for the theatre and football. Maybe the electrification of the line from Bidston to Wrexham will help. You can get a train directly from LLandudno, through Abergele, Rhyl, Flint, Conaughs(sp?) Quay etc to Manc but not here - sad......


Liverpool of course used to be called the "Capital of Wales" simply due to the number of Welsh people living here. Most came from North Wales. Interestingly the bank of North and South Wales was founded in Liverpool with its headquarters in Castle St. It provided much of the capital to fund the Welsh building companies who constructed much of suburban Liverpool in the 19th and early 20th C. This bank was founded by the Naylor family who had a town house in Rodney St. This then became a bank and is now owned by HSBC Bank succesors to the Bank of North and South Wales in Liverpool. One John Naylor and a director of the Bank of North and South Wales went to live near Welshpool, Montgomeryshire and developed the Leighton Hall Estate. He also retained ownership of Walton Hall which he inherited from the Leyland family. The family seem to have used this as their accomodation when living in Liverpool.

[Kev]

LIVERPOOL’S Welsh community is planning to celebrate Capital of Culture with an ambitious year-long programme of events.

But organisers are seeking help with funding to put on the Welsh-themed festivities after missing out on a round of culture grants.

A highlight of the year is a major concert at the Philharmonic Hall featuring the Welsh Choral Union and Aled Jones.

The concert on St David’s Day, March 1, will kick off a week of events which will culminate in a grand St David’s dinner at the Adelphi Hotel.

There will also be festivities in June and September involving top Welsh musicians.

Members of the Welsh Patagonian community are also expected to be among those who visit the city to mark the journey of the clipper the Mimosa which carried emigrants from Liverpool to Argentina in 1865.

The Rev Dr D Ben Rees, who is one of the organisers of the year, said: “The links between Liverpool and Wales go back hundreds of years.”

Any individual, business or organisation which would like to get involved or help to fund the events should call 0151-724 1989.