Lydiate Hall

[Samp]

All thats remains of Lydiate Hall, a few old fireplaces and a well, mostly covered by undergrowth. It is only a few hundred yards from the 'Scotch Piper Inn'.

[Max]

This in Maghull?

[Ged]

No Lydiate, hence the name Maxie boy, you been on the scotch 'Piper' again ;)

There's a great little farm shop and cafe next to these ruins, Lydiate Hall farm. You can have a nice toasted sarnie or jacket spud amongst the splendour of peacocks and cows mooing.




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[Partsky]

I live around the corner from the Hall. Another great place is St Katherines Priory, which is also a fabulously spooky ruin, but very beautiful and peaceful. Its the ruins of an ancient church, complete with centuries old graves, bluebells etc. Its a place where time seems to stand still and you can just hear birdsong even though its just off the Southport Road. If you are walking up from Lydiate Green, which is opposite the Weld Blundell Pub (no,not the one on the Formby Bypass, the one on Southport Road, Lydiate) you will first reach the Priory, then as you walk on you reach the Scotch Piper, and then the Farm, with Lydiate Hall in its grounds. All within half a mile. If you want to complete your history ramble you could come out of the Farm and walk down Hall Lane on the opposite side of the road. There is a lovely old Church, Our Ladys, on the corner and as you walk down and turn left at the bottom and you go over the canal bridge, you get onto Pygons Hill Lane and will come to Rosemount and Rose Hill Farm, lovely historic private buildings. Gerard Manley Hopkins frequently stayed at Rosemount and wrote some of his best verse there when on leave from St Francis Xaviers. Its a very lovely walk

[ChrisGeorge]

Hello Samp, Max, and Partsky

Very interesting photographs and information. I first visited Lydiate in the Sixties on a cycle ride with a friend from Mossley Hill. We spent time in the ruins of St. Katherine's chapel, ate our sarnies as I recall, but did not go as far as the Hall. I am very interested to learn that there are actually still some remains of the Hall there. It was I believe a half-timbered mansion. After becoming interested in poetry I was very interested in the connection of poet and Jesuit priest Gerard Manley Hopkins' with Lydiate and I wrote the below poem wondering if he had visited the chapel. He may not have, of course, but it's intersting to wonder if he did. It does seem as if Hopkins' poem "Spring and Fall (to a young child)" (http://rpo.library.utoronto.ca/poem/1048.html) was written during his time at Lydiate in 1880.

All the best

Chris

Gerard Manley Hopkins at St. Katherine's Chapel, Lydiate

O! Perfect of faith!
Although your chapel stands unroofed
to the grey Lancashire sky,
vast underbelly of God,
it is yeoman-builded, time-proved!

I, the poet-priest, escaped
from the vaporous slums of Liverpool,
sit alone in your house,
once host to Lent lilies, incantations,
companioned by elderflower, field mouse!

Katherine, I see your sainted life shine,
chiselled in the Lydiate reredoes,
I, the convert, know your face
that converted so many,
although dank grass chokes altar-space

--as I know the simple bearded ones
and their hands that thresh,
who drove you to your death,
fire-stump, heart scourging
beheaded end of mortal flesh.

Christopher T. George

[Max]

No Lydiate, hence the name Maxie boy, you been on the scotch 'Piper' again ;)

There's a great little farm shop and cafe next to these ruins, Lydiate Hall farm. You can have a nice toasted sarnie or jacket spud amongst the splendour of peacocks and cows mooing.




.

Isn't that part of Mughull though? Or a parish of Mughull or something?

I remember cycling up there last year, had to go through Walton's Rice Lane after queens drive.:eek:

[Ged]

It's not far from Maghull Max. If you get the train with your bike to Maghull and cross the A59, you can be there in half an hour on a bike. If your doing a history trail, Frank Hornby's house in Station Road, Maghull could be your first call, it's got a blue plaque, then cycle up to Lambshear lane and across to Lydiate, not far and a good day out.

[Max]

Isn't it the Lydiate on Southport road? It's basically right next to Maghull.

[Ged]

Yes, it's just a little further on - 10 mins bike time. Roughly it lies between Maghull and Aughton on the A59 to Ormskirk, there's nothing in it. Robbins Island roundabout on the A59 is Lydiate.

[ChrisGeorge]

Hi, all

The following narrative describes Lydiate Hall as it looked at the beginning of the 20th century, much different to the way it looks in the above photographs kindly posted by Samp where only a few vestiges are left. I saw the hall from a distance in the 1960's when I visited St. Katherine's chapel. The hall is set some way back from the road I had the impression it was more intact back then than it is now. Also see Lydiate and Haskayne (http://www.allertonoak.com/merseyWalks/LydiateHaskayne.html) on merseyWalks for maps and other information on the area.

Chris

From 'Townships: Lydiate', A History of the County of Lancaster: Volume 3 (1907), pp. 200-208, (http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=41321) at "British History on Line":

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3340/3341163177_9c3f63ba7a_o.gif

Lydiate Hall from the East

Lydiate Hall was originally a quadrangular building enclosing a small court, but the eastern range of buildings was destroyed about 1780. The other three sides still remain, but the house is empty and dismantled, and in spite of some amount of repair not many years ago, is rapidly falling into decay. This is all the more to be deplored because the chief rooms, the hall and great chamber, have been but little altered since they were first built, and preserve several charming pieces of detail. The exterior is very picturesque, with its panelling and bands of quatrefoils of white plaster set in black wood, and the grey stone roofing slates make an agreeable contrast to the varied patterns of the walls.

The house is of two stories, the hall occupying the west wing, with a range of rooms over it, while the great chamber is to the south, and the kitchen wing to the north. The destroyed east wing is said to have been the oldest part of the house, and stone built, but unfortunately nothing is left of it. What remains is of timber and plaster on a low stone base, and its earliest part seems to belong to the end of the fifteenth century, having probably been built by Lawrence Ireland, whose initials are on the doorway from the hall into the screens; he was living about 1470. The screens are at the north end of the hall, and are entered through a projecting porch, altered in the eighteenth century, and bearing the Anderton arms, above which is a small room with a three-light window, setting forward on carved brackets on which are three roses. The entrance door is probably original, closely studded with nails after the fashion of many others in old Lancashire houses, and immediately to the left on entering is the door of the hall with Lawrence Ireland's initials in the spandrels of the arched head The hall has a flat ceiling with moulded beams, and is lighted by a continuous row of windows on east and west. It has a large masonry fireplace at the north end on the line of the screen, probably an early sixteenth-century addition to the plan. At the south end is the canopy over the da?s, a plaster cove panelled with wooden ribs, having carved bosses at the intersections. On the bosses are a variety of devices of which some are armorial, but many seem to be merely decorative. Among them are two with the initials J. I. and B. I., for John Ireland and Beatrice (Norris) his wife. He died in 1514, and the date of the canopy is probably a few years before this. It is a beautiful and valuable example of its kind, but in the present neglected state of the house, is in no small danger of damage.

An earlier example from Boultons in West Derby parish is now set up in safety in the Liverpool Museum.

At the west end of the da?s was formerly a projecting bay, now destroyed, and the opening to it blocked up; while at the east end is a projection balancing the porch at the other end of the hall, and containing the stair to the chamber on the first floor. In the south-east corner of the hall is a door to the rooms on the ground floor of the south wing, which now contains little of interest except two good late seventeenthcentury fireplaces. In the larger of these rooms, and in the hall, the sixteenth and seventeenthcentury panelling which formerly lined their walls is carelessly stacked, at the mercy of any chance comer who may see fit to carry off anything that takes his fancy.

The great chamber has a ceiling panelled with moulded wooden beams and light ribs crossing the panels diagonally, the beams being slightly cambered. This room has been lined with sixteenth-century wainscot, full of good detail, and in it were inserted two elaborately carved panels with figures in low relief said to represent Henry VIII and his wives. Only one of these panels now remains, leaning against the wall.

The rest of the south wing is gutted, and ends in a plain brick gable.

The north wing has been nearly rebuilt, and retains nothing of its old fittings, its eastern half being now used as a farmhouse. On the north are some picturesque brick farm buildings, built by Sir Francis Anderton in 1744.

[Samp]

I live around the corner from the Hall. Another great place is St Katherines Priory, which is also a fabulously spooky ruin, but very beautiful and peaceful. Its the ruins of an ancient church, complete with centuries old graves, bluebells etc. Its a place where time seems to stand still and you can just hear birdsong even though its just off the Southport Road. If you are walking up from Lydiate Green, which is opposite the Weld Blundell Pub (no,not the one on the Formby Bypass, the one on Southport Road, Lydiate) you will first reach the Priory, then as you walk on you reach the Scotch Piper, and then the Farm, with Lydiate Hall in its grounds. All within half a mile. If you want to complete your history ramble you could come out of the Farm and walk down Hall Lane on the opposite side of the road. There is a lovely old Church, Our Ladys, on the corner and as you walk down and turn left at the bottom and you go over the canal bridge, you get onto Pygons Hill Lane and will come to Rosemount and Rose Hill Farm, lovely historic private buildings. Gerard Manley Hopkins frequently stayed at Rosemount and wrote some of his best verse there when on leave from St Francis Xaviers. Its a very lovely walk


Partsky.

Thanks for the additional information regarding Pygons Hill Lane I will give it a turn next time I visit the farm. Isn't the old priory between the Scotch Piper and the Hall, I thought it was the first field after the pub?

[Samp]

Thanks for your information to Chris!

Max, get down there in the summer and take your camera, visit the farm shop like Ged said you will enjoy the birds and peacocks.

[Partsky]

You are right Samp. The sequence is: Pub, Priory and Farm. I am a daft mare, as my Mum used to say and I dont even frequent the Scotch. Did you know that the Priory is supposed to be haunted.? Yes, I know every spooky place is supposed to be, but even the long standing locals believe it. Mind you, I think its a very peaceful place. Approve of stopping at the farm shop for a bite to eat. Its not too expensive. If you really want to have a nice lunch cross the road after a ramble or bike ride then get yourself back to Robbins Island (go past the Weld Blundell Pub) and onto the road to Ormskirk. turn off about a mile on, halfway between the island and Ormskirk, to your right where you see the signs for the Stanley Arms, which is situated in St Michaels Road, Aughton. SERIOUSLY HOME MADE FOOD AND PROPER CHIPS!!! ALL THE FOOD COOKED ON THE PREMISED AND THE BEST PUB FOR MILES. A PROPER OLD PUB AND GOOD FOOD and no, I am not related to anyone who owns it or works there but I do eat there as all the locals do. While you are there you could wander into Bickerstaffe which is very close, between Simonswood and Ormskirk.. Its flat as a pancake but does have the Old Quaker Burial Ground in Graveyard Lane which is a Grade 2 listed and dates from the 16th Century. Only the gates, grounds and land remain but its fantastic to know that this area was a stronghold of Quakers, for hundreds of years, many of whom escaped persecution all over the world, particularly America, after they were repeatedly thrown in jail and even murdered for their adherence to their faith, or refusal to pay taxes.. Its a fact that three people were set upon and killed in this area during the 16th and 17th Century and yet so few people know about this place or the history. amazing. I love to visit and just think of all those people fighting the authorities for their rights at a time when it must have been terrifying. History is all around us! Chris, loved your poem. I also loved Hopkins verse and yes, he did hate Liverpool but loved Lydiate and used to get the train from Liverpool to the Old Station on the Cheshire Lines, now long gone and walk through the field and past the Old Priory so anyone taking this walk will be following in his footsteps.

[Samp]

I know the area well, I am around there quite a lot. Have you been to the Alms houses and old chapel over Lathom way?

[wsteve55]

Hi Chris,Samp,all,
does anyone have any further history on the place,after 1901? It looks such a mysterious place, and sadly,another missed opportunity!

[Ged]

A dozen people in the Piper makes it look crushed and there was one night when the hairy bikers used to get in there, hope they hadn't been eating beans round the camp fire. The toilet is in a block across the car park.

[Partsky]

Hi Samp, no I have not visited the Almshouses. Where are they? I will definitely have a visit. Its it anywhere near the quakers burial ground?

Yes, I agree with the Scotch getting crowded with over 6 people in in. I love the fact that the when it is busy with the Bikers, which is usually Wednesday night, or on a nice Sunny day, the staff make hundreds of cups of Tea for the Bikers as, amazingly, a lot of them dont drink at all. Its funny to see these huge, hairy bikers with their cups of tea.

[Ged]

Yes, prevents braking the drink ride law :)

[ChrisGeorge]

You are right Samp. The sequence is: Pub, Priory and Farm. I am a daft mare, as my Mum used to say and I dont even frequent the Scotch. Did you know that the Priory is supposed to be haunted.? Yes, I know every spooky place is supposed to be, but even the long standing locals believe it. Mind you, I think its a very peaceful place. Approve of stopping at the farm shop for a bite to eat. Its not too expensive. If you really want to have a nice lunch cross the road after a ramble or bike ride then get yourself back to Robbins Island (go past the Weld Blundell Pub) and onto the road to Ormskirk. turn off about a mile on, halfway between the island and Ormskirk, to your right where you see the signs for the Stanley Arms, which is situated in St Michaels Road, Aughton. SERIOUSLY HOME MADE FOOD AND PROPER CHIPS!!! ALL THE FOOD COOKED ON THE PREMISED AND THE BEST PUB FOR MILES. A PROPER OLD PUB AND GOOD FOOD and no, I am not related to anyone who owns it or works there but I do eat there as all the locals do. While you are there you could wander into Bickerstaffe which is very close, between Simonswood and Ormskirk.. Its flat as a pancake but does have the Old Quaker Burial Ground in Graveyard Lane which is a Grade 2 listed and dates from the 16th Century. Only the gates, grounds and land remain but its fantastic to know that this area was a stronghold of Quakers, for hundreds of years, many of whom escaped persecution all over the world, particularly America, after they were repeatedly thrown in jail and even murdered for their adherence to their faith, or refusal to pay taxes.. Its a fact that three people were set upon and killed in this area during the 16th and 17th Century and yet so few people know about this place or the history. amazing. I love to visit and just think of all those people fighting the authorities for their rights at a time when it must have been terrifying. History is all around us! Chris, loved your poem. I also loved Hopkins verse and yes, he did hate Liverpool but loved Lydiate and used to get the train from Liverpool to the Old Station on the Cheshire Lines, now long gone and walk through the field and past the Old Priory so anyone taking this walk will be following in his footsteps.

Hi Partsky

Glad you liked my Gerard Manley Hopkins poem. I was interested to get your opinion that Hopkins definitely walked by the old chapel on his way to and from the railway station. I also agree that the chapel has a definite "presence" to it and I think of it a lot as being one of the more best historic sites around Merseyside that I have visited. The whole of the plain from Maghull up through Lydiate, Downholland, Haskayne, Halsall, Scarisbrick, to Southport is very interesting. My Auntie Mary used to live in Thornton but the old village there is now all built up. It would be nice to think that the area between Lydiate and Southport would not become built on but that's probably being too hopeful. :rolleyes:

All the best

Chris

[Partsky]

Chris, Hopkins would have indeed walked past the chapel. It is known that he went by train from Liverpool to the old Lydiate station.The walk from the station, which is now part of the cheshire lines walking route, took him up Punnells Lane, which still exists, and onto the road that led to railway road, or Pilling Lane, then onto the Southport Road.. These are old roads which still exist and intersect farmland which has not been built upon since his day. He would then have to pass the Priory to actually get to Hall Lane and to Rosemount where he frequently stayed with friends. St Francis Xaviers, where he was based, served the Parish of Our Ladys, in Hall Lane, with priests, as the area had been without A Catholic Church for some years following the destruction and subsequent dilapidation of the St Katherines Chapel, also known as the old Priory. The Church is situated opposite the gates to Lydiate Hall Farm so you can bet your boots Hopkins would know the area, particularly as he was often the guest of the family in Rosemount or at the Priests house. We have obviouly both walked in his footsteps at one time or another.

[Samp]

Hi Samp, no I have not visited the Almshouses. Where are they? I will definitely have a visit. Its it anywhere near the quakers burial ground?

Yes, I agree with the Scotch getting crowded with over 6 people in in. I love the fact that the when it is busy with the Bikers, which is usually Wednesday night, or on a nice Sunny day, the staff make hundreds of cups of Tea for the Bikers as, amazingly, a lot of them dont drink at all. Its funny to see these huge, hairy bikers with their cups of tea.

Hello Partski, I will try and give you the directions from Lydiate.

Here goes! Make your way to Ormskirk and follow the road round Ormskirk via the church on the hill. Take the road towards the 'station'. Carry on pass the station and head out of Ormskirk towards the Lathom area, (the road which takes you towards the hospital.) Carry on this road for some way (a nice country type lane) until you reach a T junction. Turn right at the junction, (left takes you towards Newbourgh) carry on up this road until you see a sort of lay by on the left hand side, it should be signposted for the chapel. You can park up there and walk up the small private road. The chapel is less than ten minuets along the lane, the almshouses are alongside the chapel. (Chapel only open for a short while on Sundays).

See pictures below! Hope this helps.

The sandstone block is from the civil war period.

[Partsky]

Thanks for that. Great directions and I know my way Ormskirk station so the rest should be a doddle. will go at the weekend. Cheers! Nice photos too!

[wsteve55]

After seeing the pic's on here,took a trip up to Lydiate to have a look at the hall,and St. Katharines chapel.A lovely area,and hard to believe it's so close to Liverpool! Though there's not much left of the hall,the different styles/types of it's construction,can be seen,and there still a substantial victorian frontage. There have been some attempts to secure the building,and a local we spoke to, said,that there is some plan of restoration is in the offing! Also, in the summer,shakespearean plays are performed in the atmospheric setting of St.Katharines chapel,and while at the nearby farm, I've never seen so many peacocks!:shock:

[gregs dad]

St Catherines is at its best in a week or two when the daffodils are in bloom

[ChrisGeorge]

The sandstone block is from the civil war period.

Thanks for the pics, Samp. I had not heard about "Cromwell's Stone" before and it's interesting to see. I do know about the Roundhead siege of Lathom House, which is part of the lore of Lancashire. That it's thought that the holes in the stone (presumably sandstone) could have been used to cast shot used in the siege is interesting to speculate, although one might suspect that red hot iron or lead might have split the stone. But what do I know. In any case though a fascinating vestige of local history!

Chris

[Samp]

After seeing the pic's on here,took a trip up to Lydiate to have a look at the hall,and St. Katharines chapel.A lovely area,and hard to believe it's so close to Liverpool! Though there's not much left of the hall,the different styles/types of it's construction,can be seen,and there still a substantial victorian frontage. There have been some attempts to secure the building,and a local we spoke to, said,that there is some plan of restoration is in the offing! Also, in the summer,shakespearean plays are performed in the atmospheric setting of St.Katharines chapel,and while at the nearby farm, I've never seen so many peacocks!:shock:

First class photos!

I'm glad you liked the peacocks, I don't think you can count them all, they are all over the place.

[Samp]

Thanks for the pics, Samp. I had not heard about "Cromwell's Stone" before and it's interesting to see. I do know about the Roundhead seige of Lathom House, which is part of the lore of Lancashire. That it's thought that the holes in the stone (presumably sandstone) could have been used to cast shot used in the seige is interesting to speculate, although one might suspect that red hot iron or lead might have split the stone. But what do I know. In any case though a fascinating vestige of local history!

Chris

Thanks Chris.

Just across the fields from the stone you can see Lathom house, it has not long been redeveloped and I think it is now a country club or some such.

[wsteve55]

First class photos!

I'm glad you liked the peacocks, I don't think you can count them all, they are all over the place.

Thanks SAMP,
I lost count after 20,and a Great suggestion for a visit!:nod: Ta Steve.

[ChrisGeorge]

St Catherines is at its best in a week or two when the daffodils are in bloom

Hi Joe

Maybe you can get some photos for us??? Thanks in advance, mate. :PDT11

Chris :PDT_Aliboronz_24:

[gregs dad]

QUOTE=ChrisGeorge;166617]Hi Joe

Maybe you can get some photos for us??? Thanks in advance, mate. :PDT11

Chris :PDT_Aliboronz_24:[/QUOTE]
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee283/exactavarex/P1060858.jpg
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Taken today Chris then in to the Scotch Piper for a pint of Theakstons bitter
St Catherines,Lydiate.

[ChrisGeorge]

Wonderful to see, Joe. :handclap:

Wish I could have been there with you at the Scotch Piper.

I was at St. Catherine's chapel circa 1964 on a bike ride from Mossley Hill. My mate and I ate our sandwiches there.

Many thanks.

Chris

[gregs dad]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3659/3392225856_665c86ce80_o.jpg
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Here is the Scottish Piper yesterday, built in 1320 it has had various names
through it`s history ,Royal Oak,Old Lolly`s,Highland Piper.
The Royal Oak name supposedly because it was built around an oak tree, the remnants of the tree are believed to still be in the tap room .There is a pub
down the road called the Weld Blundell which was known as The New Lollys
when first built.
That`s my pints of Theakstons bitter in the last pic,notice the radio in the corner, no telly.

[scouse smurf]

excellent pics, GD.

Nice to see a pub that's still got a dartboard too

[18stanley]

No telly - that must be a plus. There must be loads of people still going to the pub just to get away from it. Or to have a convivial game of darts. Am I to
understand that it is now rare to find a dartboard in UK pubs? If so, there
goes another of my fond memories.
And Scouse, this pub has actually got two dartboards!
Stan H.

[scouse smurf]

No telly - that must be a plus. There must be loads of people still going to the pub just to get away from it. Or to have a convivial game of darts. Am I to
understand that it is now rare to find a dartboard in UK pubs? If so, there
goes another of my fond memories.
And Scouse, this pub has actually got two dartboards!
Stan H.

I didn't even notice the dartboard on the bench lol

I don't go into pubs that much, but the major chains don't even have pool tables nevermind dartboards... All u seem to able to do is drink, eat, talk a little bit (when the music isn't too loud) and check out the eye candy (be that male or female). The telly is needed in them places coz ya can't talk non-stop and how awkward can it be when there's silence?

In reference to the red dwarf thread, can u imagine lister being born under the LCD screen in wetherspoons or yates ??

[spekelad]

I have spent several hours going through this gallery and others over the past few days. I must say it has been a great pleasure to see the photo's people have put here. The photo's of Lydiate Hall are haunting, sad but beautiful and the history of the hall very interesting. :handclap:

Spekelad